The Immortals

[Sean Manning]

I have read the Shahnameh, the main work on Iranic that has survived, therefore I fell completely free to disagree with scholars that claim that Xenophon wanted to show the ideal ruler and that everything is explainable without the Persians.

Paullus Scipio:

( e.g. the education of Persian boys is an ideal, and sounds suspiciously like the Spartan agogue rather than something genuinely Persian )

I disagree. As first I think the Persian and Greek cultures were not that different, the Persians thought, e.g. Apollo were their Mazda, the Spartans as the masters of Greece their equals and many other examples, we also know that the Greeks knew about the Iranics before their historical contact with them.

In Herodotus we find the same strict doctrines for the youths, clear rules which are only given in much greater detail by Xenophon.
Actually we can expect that Herodotus himself knew about the Persian work or oral tradition about Cyrus of the Cyropaedia, due to the very last part of the Histories; Herodotus tells that Cyrus demanded the Persians not to change their harsh and difficult life in the Persis to remain rugged. Like in the Cyropaedia, Cyrus appears as ideal "father" of the Persians with his rules for further generations.
I don't say that the Cyropaedia is the biography of Cyrus; it’s most likely a propaganda work for the Persians soldiers about their glorious ancestors.

Paullus Scipio:

using a 'fictionalised' Cyrus whose Persian army and Egyptian foe never really existed.

That could be very well a report from Cyrus times, when Persians didn't have much information about the Egyptians or better said anyone except their direct neighbours. Otherwise Xenophon make pretty hard claims when saying that those defeated Egyptians were settled around the east Mediterranean coast and "every one who went there can still see the descendants of that defeated Egyptian army", I don't think he would have ever made such a claim if it was just a tale.

Paullus Scipio:

The imaginary battle of 'Thymbara', though, served to illustrate Xenophon's thoughts to a large degree on drills and tactics of contemporary Hoplites.

If we look at the seal of the fully equipped Persian heavy infantryman we can assume that there really was a heavy hand to hand fighting infantry force, there is no reason to think that it's Greek just because it’s similar. Those games the Persians played are one reason why the Persians became so strong during actual battle.

I agree that there were heavy Persian infantry (the sparabara, the Applebearers, and possibly the Kardakes). But the Persian infantry of the Cyropaedia with axes and swords and peltai are purely fictional in my opinion. Persian infantry used spears or bows as their main weapons. The Persian troops of the Cyropaedia look like the Amazons or generic Asian barbarians of Greek art, as J.K. Anderson says.

J.K. Anderson has pointed out that the Battle of Thymbrara looks like a lesson for Greek generals in how to beat an enemy that tries to outflank you with hoplites and how to beat a deeper phalanx, with some fantastic addition such as the ox-drawn towers. Xenophon could well have been inspired by Persian tales to use the life of Cyrus as the basis for his novel, but he added and changed many things and misunderstood others. He may have respected many Persians, but he was also convinced that Greeks were superior so would have had no problem with heavily adapting a Persian story.

The spearman in that seal lacks a shield, so some of his gear must have been left out. In my opinion he is a sparabara or dismounted cavalryman.

I'll read the Shahname one of these days, but my list of books to read is growing faster than I take books off it. Its a very busy term at university.