04-15-2009, 06:11 PM
IIRC, it's in a primary source somewhere that the manufacturing method wasn't learned until Spanish swordsmiths were captured after the fall of Cartagena in 209 BC. They were forced to show the Romans the technique. The description of the blade being able to be bent from the top of the head, to touch both shoulders, I believe is Philon's.
The attribution of the story to Polybius is in Rome and her Enemies, edited by Jane Penrose.
However, according to Scipio Africanus in the second Punic war, by Howard Hayes Scullard, p.95
"Difficulties of defining the earlier type of Roman sword have led many scholars to reject or modify this passage (by Suidas) by supposing that the Spanish sword was not a special type, but only of special quality, like Toledo steel, or that it was a curved sabre. Thus the old theory of a pointed sword replacing a blunt one has been rejected. P. Couissin however has shown that these objections do not affect Suidas' statements. In the middle of the third century the Romans used a short Graeco-Italian sword of the Hallstatt type, which was better for thrusting than cutting. During the Second Punic War the Iberians used a sword of the type of La Tene I; this was admired and adopted by the Romans for its excellence in stabbing and cutting, and it was known as the "gladus hispaniensis." At Cannae the Romans with their short stabbing Graeco-Italian sword met Gauls with long sharp unpointed swords (of the type La Tene II). Afterwards they adopted the Spanish sword, which with its well-tempered steel point combined the best points of both these types. It was in Spain that the Romans encountered this sword, and probably at New Carthage that they first aquired it and practised using it under Scipio's supervision."
Sorry for the long link, but I can't find how to do text hyperlinks in the new setup here.
link from old RAT
Useful reference... I think :wink:
link from old RAT
http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/celtic/ekeltoi/ ... o_6_4.html
<!-- l <a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=25675">viewtopic.php?f=25&t=25675<!-- l
The attribution of the story to Polybius is in Rome and her Enemies, edited by Jane Penrose.
However, according to Scipio Africanus in the second Punic war, by Howard Hayes Scullard, p.95
"Difficulties of defining the earlier type of Roman sword have led many scholars to reject or modify this passage (by Suidas) by supposing that the Spanish sword was not a special type, but only of special quality, like Toledo steel, or that it was a curved sabre. Thus the old theory of a pointed sword replacing a blunt one has been rejected. P. Couissin however has shown that these objections do not affect Suidas' statements. In the middle of the third century the Romans used a short Graeco-Italian sword of the Hallstatt type, which was better for thrusting than cutting. During the Second Punic War the Iberians used a sword of the type of La Tene I; this was admired and adopted by the Romans for its excellence in stabbing and cutting, and it was known as the "gladus hispaniensis." At Cannae the Romans with their short stabbing Graeco-Italian sword met Gauls with long sharp unpointed swords (of the type La Tene II). Afterwards they adopted the Spanish sword, which with its well-tempered steel point combined the best points of both these types. It was in Spain that the Romans encountered this sword, and probably at New Carthage that they first aquired it and practised using it under Scipio's supervision."
Sorry for the long link, but I can't find how to do text hyperlinks in the new setup here.
link from old RAT
Useful reference... I think :wink:
link from old RAT
http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/celtic/ekeltoi/ ... o_6_4.html
<!-- l <a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=25675">viewtopic.php?f=25&t=25675<!-- l
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
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A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
