Proto-Centurion question

[Cruxik]

Wikipedia is a very convenient tool but I have critical caution on some of it and most of it doesn't cover the subjects in detail so I've come here, as my knowledge needs to be practical as well as scholarly.

Also, I've taken to the sources (for the sake of convenience) used by the team of Rome Total Realism, a mod for a game I'm sure some of you are acquainted with.

Ave, Patrick! First off, my first rule of thumb is to Avoid Wikipedia Like the Plague. Yes, I have seen good information there, but so much is also so riddled with glaring errors that I am terrified at the thought of anyone actually trying to learn about the Roman army from it! I don't know anything about the game you mention, but I'd at least be VERY leery of using it for a source or for collecting sources.

My advice: Get a couple books!

Connolly, Peter. Greece and Rome at War, 2nd edition (Ack, sorry, I only have the ISBN for the first edition, 1998!)

Sekunda, Nick. Republican Roman Army 200-104 BC. Osprey Men-at-Arms Series #291. London: Osprey, 1994. ISBN 1-855325-985

Warry, John. Warfare in the Classical World. New York: St. Martin's Press, 1980. ISBN 0-312-85614-8

Goldsworthy, Adrian. The Roman Army at War, 100 BC - AD 200. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1996. ISBN 0-19-815090-3

There's also an Osprey volume called "Early Roman Armies" which is quite good. Any of the books above should give you more information, and much better, than all of Wikipedia. And the Ospreys are cheap!

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/bibliog.html

I've pieced together the idea that the Centurion was first put in place by the Marius Reforms, if this is true, then what would have been the equivalent (if any), to the Centurion in the Manipular army in place during the Third Punic war? For instance rather than a Century of 80 men, a leader(officer) of each 120 man maniple, or a certain division thereof?
If so what would he have been called and how would he have been armed?

Eh? No, the post of centurion was about as old as the army itself! Each maniple was made of 2 centuries, about 60 men per century for the principes and hastati, and about 30 each for the triarii (plus velites, as I recall). Each century had a centurion, with that of the "forward" century outranking that of the "rear" century. The 80 man century is considered typical for the Empire, not the Republic.

That get you started? Good luck and Vale,

Matthew

Yeah, I figured Wikipedia was the devil. I was fairly certain awhile back that the centurions had been around forever but i remember reading some article that began to confuse me and then I was frightened that they weren't around until post marius. I'm really glad they were!

As for searching the forum, I did, but couldn't find conclusive evidence on that fact for some reason, guess ill look closer next time.

As for Rome total realism I don't plan on completely abandoning it because from what I know of the guys who work on it they're about as enthusiastic on the history as you guys are! Their history team has several degrees between them on the subject and they've taken great pains to get it as accurate as possible. Even so though, I only treat it as a last resort.

Until now I have shied away from books but that's only because i needed to know which specific ones I needed, I'll look into those, are their any others you guys could suggest for that specific "Third Punic War" time?
Thanks for the info, I'll look into those books. Just need to know that it will be mostly around the 200-150BC range cause I don't have a ton of money to throw around at books unfortunately. [/quote]