08-13-2007, 07:31 AM
I would agree that Sparta sucks (I don't like this state :wink: ).
But to be honest: a too technical view to battles and military history in general is always problematic. It results in commonplaces like: the Romans beat the Greeks because of the flexible legions, the English beat the French because of the famous longbow, blablabla. There are many more conditions that influence the going of history.
Each battle has to be examined carefully. As is mentioned before, Leuktra and Mantinea were no clear victories of an ingenius army over dumb fools. The Theban tactics were special and prone to fail, depending on the circumstances.
Sparta faced indeed more and more problems in the 4th and 3rd century. One was the growing use of epilektoi hoplites by other states. The Sacred Band of Theban is just one example. These warriors were at least as good as the Spartans. No classical Greek phalanx army (except perhaps the Spartans) would have been able to solve the problems of the Thebans at Leuktra, when their attack was stopped. Pelopidas realized the problem and (and underlined) was able to lead the Sacred Band at the right place; that sounds easy, but it was really a great feat in phalanx combat.
Another problem was that the "myth" (myths don't come from nothing, Sparta had earned the fame of invincibility by deeds) of the Spartan hoplites eroded more and more. It started in the Peloponesian war. For example at Sphakteria 425 BC the Athenians (800 hoplites, 800 peltasts, 800 archers and about 6000 rowers) were first very reluctant to attack the Spartans (420 hoplites plus helots) because of their fear of Spartan hoplite invincibility. That fear was partly gone in the 4th c. BC.
And a very real problem was the loss in manpower that Sparta faced. The number of Spartan homoioi (full members of the leading fighting class) decreased more and more due to battle losses, low fertility and esp. poverty of many former members (corresponding with growing wealth of few others). One of the biggest weaknesses of the Greek poleis was always the restrictive manner with which the right of citizenship was handled. In Sparta the problem was doubled. Trials of reforms in Sparta in the 3rd c. BC failed more or less.
Pure battle tactics were not the main problem and would not have been the solution for Sparta.
But to be honest: a too technical view to battles and military history in general is always problematic. It results in commonplaces like: the Romans beat the Greeks because of the flexible legions, the English beat the French because of the famous longbow, blablabla. There are many more conditions that influence the going of history.
Each battle has to be examined carefully. As is mentioned before, Leuktra and Mantinea were no clear victories of an ingenius army over dumb fools. The Theban tactics were special and prone to fail, depending on the circumstances.
Sparta faced indeed more and more problems in the 4th and 3rd century. One was the growing use of epilektoi hoplites by other states. The Sacred Band of Theban is just one example. These warriors were at least as good as the Spartans. No classical Greek phalanx army (except perhaps the Spartans) would have been able to solve the problems of the Thebans at Leuktra, when their attack was stopped. Pelopidas realized the problem and (and underlined) was able to lead the Sacred Band at the right place; that sounds easy, but it was really a great feat in phalanx combat.
Another problem was that the "myth" (myths don't come from nothing, Sparta had earned the fame of invincibility by deeds) of the Spartan hoplites eroded more and more. It started in the Peloponesian war. For example at Sphakteria 425 BC the Athenians (800 hoplites, 800 peltasts, 800 archers and about 6000 rowers) were first very reluctant to attack the Spartans (420 hoplites plus helots) because of their fear of Spartan hoplite invincibility. That fear was partly gone in the 4th c. BC.
And a very real problem was the loss in manpower that Sparta faced. The number of Spartan homoioi (full members of the leading fighting class) decreased more and more due to battle losses, low fertility and esp. poverty of many former members (corresponding with growing wealth of few others). One of the biggest weaknesses of the Greek poleis was always the restrictive manner with which the right of citizenship was handled. In Sparta the problem was doubled. Trials of reforms in Sparta in the 3rd c. BC failed more or less.
Pure battle tactics were not the main problem and would not have been the solution for Sparta.
Wolfgang Zeiler
