10-29-2007, 12:34 AM
Paralus/ Michael wrote:-
[quote]That's a hell of a lot to deal with whilst doing spreadsheets at the office. Just quickly: My post too was only a brief foray on a question that is difficult !
There is precious little direct evidence either way. ...agreed, as is so often the case when discussing things ancient....rarely are we going to reach the criminal standard of "proof beyond reasonable doubt", but we are often going to have to settle, for want of conclusive evidence, on the lower civil burden of proof " on balance of probablity".. you will gather that I am a lawyer by profession - please don't hold that against me! :wink: MM Markle argues strongly in favour of the hoplite theory based on his work on the Macedonian aspis in artwork (mostly). Many of these representations are "ceremonial" (as he admits)....I would certainly not necessarily accept this, and Markle is wrong about quite a few things... and the literary evidence comes down to how Alexander uses his troops and the terms that, generally, Arrian applies to them. The "Alexander sarcophagus", if representing reality, argues in your favour. ...and so, I think, does the existence in the so-called Philip tomb of more than one 'Aspis and Dory', implying that when the king fought on foot, it was as a Hoplite among the Hypaspists.....At bottom though it is art (hence the "heroic nudes") and it will have been rather unwieldy depicting sarissa armed troops on same. In fact, depictions of sarissa armed troops are notable by their scarcity.
The notion of a “hoplite classâ€
[quote]That's a hell of a lot to deal with whilst doing spreadsheets at the office. Just quickly: My post too was only a brief foray on a question that is difficult !
There is precious little direct evidence either way. ...agreed, as is so often the case when discussing things ancient....rarely are we going to reach the criminal standard of "proof beyond reasonable doubt", but we are often going to have to settle, for want of conclusive evidence, on the lower civil burden of proof " on balance of probablity".. you will gather that I am a lawyer by profession - please don't hold that against me! :wink: MM Markle argues strongly in favour of the hoplite theory based on his work on the Macedonian aspis in artwork (mostly). Many of these representations are "ceremonial" (as he admits)....I would certainly not necessarily accept this, and Markle is wrong about quite a few things... and the literary evidence comes down to how Alexander uses his troops and the terms that, generally, Arrian applies to them. The "Alexander sarcophagus", if representing reality, argues in your favour. ...and so, I think, does the existence in the so-called Philip tomb of more than one 'Aspis and Dory', implying that when the king fought on foot, it was as a Hoplite among the Hypaspists.....At bottom though it is art (hence the "heroic nudes") and it will have been rather unwieldy depicting sarissa armed troops on same. In fact, depictions of sarissa armed troops are notable by their scarcity.
The notion of a “hoplite classâ€
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
