04-02-2009, 10:20 PM
Cole wrote:
....I think that must be a rather dubious proposition at best. The 'common opinion' is that phalanx/Hoplite warfare was introduced to Greece in the 8C. BC, following the introduction of the 'Argive' aspis, though some revisionists have suggested a date as recent as the 7C.BC. Originally, the Hoplites seem to have used two dual-purpose throwing/thrusting spears (longche), which was replaced by the 'Great Spear' (dory). Certainly 'full blown' Phalanx warfare in the classic sense is shown on the Chigi vase of c. 650 BC, which means that any 'revolution' was complete by then. The men carry aspides, a single spear (dory) which they grasp to thrust, though spears with throwing loops in pairs are shown propped up in an arming scene. They are in formed lines and run into battle together in step ( incidently throwing doubt on the Athenian claim to be the first to do so at Marathon).
Certainly I don't doubt that change continued throughout the period. Equipment altered, drill/tactics ( the two were almost synonymous) grew more sophisticated etc, but this was an evolutionary process, not a revolutionary one.
As to the scene you refer to in Herodotus, during the Persian recapture of Cyprus, it was a common-place in our ancient sources to describe 'Heroic Duels' taking place in the midst of battle between Opposing Commanders, right down to Alexander and later still Roman times. However, how many of these are historical is a thorny question, and certainly nowhere do we hear of special duelling equipment being used......
These two pieces of 'evidence' you put forward do not at all suggest the existence of a 'Boeotian' shield to me.
Quote:I think it has been argued that the hoplite "revolution" is still ongoing around 500 BC,
....I think that must be a rather dubious proposition at best. The 'common opinion' is that phalanx/Hoplite warfare was introduced to Greece in the 8C. BC, following the introduction of the 'Argive' aspis, though some revisionists have suggested a date as recent as the 7C.BC. Originally, the Hoplites seem to have used two dual-purpose throwing/thrusting spears (longche), which was replaced by the 'Great Spear' (dory). Certainly 'full blown' Phalanx warfare in the classic sense is shown on the Chigi vase of c. 650 BC, which means that any 'revolution' was complete by then. The men carry aspides, a single spear (dory) which they grasp to thrust, though spears with throwing loops in pairs are shown propped up in an arming scene. They are in formed lines and run into battle together in step ( incidently throwing doubt on the Athenian claim to be the first to do so at Marathon).
Certainly I don't doubt that change continued throughout the period. Equipment altered, drill/tactics ( the two were almost synonymous) grew more sophisticated etc, but this was an evolutionary process, not a revolutionary one.
As to the scene you refer to in Herodotus, during the Persian recapture of Cyprus, it was a common-place in our ancient sources to describe 'Heroic Duels' taking place in the midst of battle between Opposing Commanders, right down to Alexander and later still Roman times. However, how many of these are historical is a thorny question, and certainly nowhere do we hear of special duelling equipment being used......
These two pieces of 'evidence' you put forward do not at all suggest the existence of a 'Boeotian' shield to me.
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
