07-24-2007, 11:25 PM
...just a note for the avoidance of confusion on formations. When we speak of '3 feet frontage' we should make it clear whether we mean;
1. Each man occupying a 3 foot interval (i.e no gaps and close order) or.....
2. Each man having a 3 foot interval to his neighbour ( i.e. occupying 3 ft, then a 3ft gap and open order ).......
Some good points, Cinna/Michael, illustrating that how troops fight depends on who their opponents are - but we digress once again !!. When Greeks fight Persians, there is generally a fight across the sparabara wall, until eventually the heavier armoured Greeks break through/pull down the wall, when the now shieldless Persians are slaughtered (again, no 'pushing contest').
Caesar's contest against Ariovistus again shows that 'pushing' was not how the shieldwall was broken ( at least in Caesar's time)
As for Pharsalus, I have already said a couple of times, that I believe that a "charge" would generally spontaneously halt at 'fighting distance' ( as we see in the riot videos) - the second rank would be sufficiently far back to avoid impaling their comrades on enemy weapons ( unless deliberately 'shoving' with their shields pressed into their backs, John Conyer style ! :wink: :lol: )
1. Each man occupying a 3 foot interval (i.e no gaps and close order) or.....
2. Each man having a 3 foot interval to his neighbour ( i.e. occupying 3 ft, then a 3ft gap and open order ).......
Some good points, Cinna/Michael, illustrating that how troops fight depends on who their opponents are - but we digress once again !!. When Greeks fight Persians, there is generally a fight across the sparabara wall, until eventually the heavier armoured Greeks break through/pull down the wall, when the now shieldless Persians are slaughtered (again, no 'pushing contest').
Caesar's contest against Ariovistus again shows that 'pushing' was not how the shieldwall was broken ( at least in Caesar's time)
As for Pharsalus, I have already said a couple of times, that I believe that a "charge" would generally spontaneously halt at 'fighting distance' ( as we see in the riot videos) - the second rank would be sufficiently far back to avoid impaling their comrades on enemy weapons ( unless deliberately 'shoving' with their shields pressed into their backs, John Conyer style ! :wink: :lol: )
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
