Onward and Upward - Carthaginian reenacting

[Dan Z]

Thracian helmets were Hellenistic, yes, but they were eastern Hellenistic, and they never travelled farther west, it seems, than Italy. It's not like all Hellenistic-era armies shared the same kinds of equipment; there were of course regional variations.

Ah! I just realized as I read this that my primary area of focus for this time in history has always been Thrace and the surrounding areas whch seems to have put a decidedly eastern slant on my idea of Hellenistic armies. Things like that make me greatful that there are people around who I can bounce these ideas off of!

As for quilted armour, if you can provide evidence for it being worn in the Hellenistic period, I would be very interested to see it.

Both Connolly and Wary seem to imply in their respective books that quilted linen armor came into fashion around the time of Iphicrates and remained in use at least until 200 BC.

The point might be somewhat moot however - while I was looking through my reference books I realized that in Greece and Rome at War, Connolly has two photos of some of the Chemtou reliefs (on page 147 to be specific). One photo shows a round shield and the other a cuirass which he feels is probably mail. I also found a picture of that Carthaginian standard in the back of the book.

What is the citation for that Plutarch passage, btw?

Warry does not give a specific citation, but he covers it on pages 98 and 99 of Warfare in the Classical World.

The Seleucids were just about the farthest away a Hellenistic army could be from the Carthaginians, so they are hardly a good comparison. However, the Sicilians wore Greek style linothorakes and metal muscled cuirasses. I don't know of any evidence for Hellenistic Sicilian mail.

Well, yes, I agree that it woudl be a very long walk from Carthage to Alexandria, but there are supposedly some similarities in religious practices that suggest a cultural link between Carthage and Egypt - most likely via trade. I haven't chased that one down any further though because my main focus at the moment is weapons and armor. :lol: They are close in the sense that they are both North African and would both made use of North African elephants for their armies. I have never seen a map that showed the eastern extent of the Carthaginian Empire but depending on how far east and west the Carthaginian and Seleucid borders respectively went it is possible they might have shared a border.

Unless you meant that the Seleucid Army was philosophically separated from the other Hellenistic armies?

This is contradicted by the ancient historians who tell us that Hannibal's Carthaginians became almost identical in appearence to the Romans.

Which passages are you referring to?

Bah! I can't find it now, but I'll keep searching, however, one thing all my references agree on is that definitely after Cannae, and perhaps as early as after Trebbia Hannibal had all of his Carthaginians reequipped with Roman armor - possibly even Roman swords.

And yes, I found that description in the Osprey Thracians title to be a little strange myself .

I hope they fix that in the next Thracian book! :lol: