Linothorax design/construction

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

We seem to be agreed that either term could be correct for "tube-and-yoke cuirass" whatever Xenophon's personal usage was, and that spolas literally means "leather garment" but could more specifically mean "leather armour, very possibly with this cut".

Yes,but if we can identify another garment/form of protection that would be leather, then the term "spolas" in Xenophon would not mean tube and yoke cuirass,or the possibility for it would be low. What i'm trying to do is find hoplite equipment in every form of art that appears frequently enough to be called "thorax" in a dictionary and that could be leather but not tube and yoke.
My problem is that I believe linen was used by the Greeks to make armour. Obviously leather was used,too,but it doesn't seem likely to me that leather and linen cuirasses would be identical. So I link more easilly the linen with the tube and yoke and my reasoning has to find another kind of leather protection that hoplites used.
Why do I prefer to link linen with the tube and yoke and spolas(leather) to something else?
+1) spolas is a leather garment
+2) spolas hungs/touches(ephaptetai) to the shoulders which may link it to the tube and yoke
+3) Xenophon puts some of his soldiers wearing spolades(mentions the word only two times ever)

-1) Spolas when mentioned in a text from the period it was used,and the tube and yoke was popular (Aristophanes) has a different meaning and nothing to do with war
-2) the properties of the tube and yoke as apear in art cannot be easilly explained by leather that makes good armour(this is not objective)
-3) Xenophon has a relatively big work and he choses to use this word only twice and in the most "exotic" of his works,when the soldiers some times had to invent or adopt things they would normally not wear(for example the shoes they made when their sandals were destroyed)

Linen...Paul M has achieved to prove that there is no streight evidence for the link between linen and the tube and yoke.
-1) When mentioned, linen cuirasses could be refering either in Greek or foreign armour.
-2) The dates we are sure linen was used were before the time of the tube and yoke(or at least from the time it became popular)
-3) The plain surface of the linothorax is not explained if the tube and yoke was quilted(unless you add an outer not stitched surface)
-4) The leatherophiles may add some of the other major points against linen that i cannot remember (I hope they'll add only the major ones, as I did with leather,otherwise the debate will start again hock: )

+1) The Greeks used linen cuirasses from very early, proven by text and actual finds. They knew linen armour till at least 7th-6th century bc. I don't think they abandoned it for leather just like that in the 6th century!
+2) Those cases who are interpreted as refering to Asian armour by the leatherophiles could well be refering to Greek armor,too. The fact that they are rejected is because this makes the other theory easier(this is my personal view)
+3) Alkaios is also rejected for a variety of reasons that cannot be proven and I could use him as "evidence" as easilly the others are rejecting him. It is almost certain he is talking about Greek armor and he wrote in a time that even Heroic poets used mostly modern terms and equipment(remember that vases and sculpture never use bronze age or older equipment in their heroes).And finally,we don't even know the poetry was "Homeric".Someone stated he might be describing dedications to a temple of Ares? (more on this please?)
+4) Properties of the linothorax are easilly explained by linen(glued or stitched)
+5) In many cases the Asiatic armour is identical to the Greek tube and yoke. So even if some of the mentions of linen thorakes are refering to Asiatic armour,this could be very similar to the Greek armour.
+6) In hunting scenes many times the men are depicted armed like in battle(in some archaic pottery they even wear bell cuirasses). I don't remember if I've seen tube and yoke in hunting,but it's probable. Linen cuirass is stated was appropriate for hunting...(the point against this would be that again it is not clear if the armour is greek or asiatic).

There are other prons and cons in either theory,and this is no way an exhaustive list of the points I can make,just from the top of my head.
All in all,unfortunately there is no purely objective opinion yet.
Khairete
Giannis