07-13-2008, 04:55 AM
Quote:I wouldn't deny that homosexuality existed in Sparta or Athens or anywhere else, but it is worth noting that, for instance, if homosexuality were the "norm" that some modern historians make it (wish it?) then Aristophanes's Lysistrata (Λυσιστράτη) (411 BC) would not have been funny.
Lysistrata is a comedy in which the women of Athens and Sparta refuse to have sex with their husbands until they make peace. The play was written in the darkest days of the 30 Year's War and if Greek men, or even men of the Hoplite Class in either state had been "mostly" or even "some" homosexual, the point of the play would vanish--it wouldn't have been funny then.
I'd further argue that Plutarch and Polybius are at the root of a great many tales of pederasty and the like. Look--let's face it, any system that allows the mature (men or women) special powers and privileges over the immature (men or women) usually results in sexual abuse. But... it seems to me that it suited later, mostly Roman, commentators to push the effeminacy of Greece. Most hoplites were farmers and small husbandmen or craftsmen who lived very plain, almost austere lives and didn't have time for orgies of any kind.
That said, I've also read a good deal of Greek poetry, and you can take Sappho (or Alcaeus, for that matter) in a number of different ways--probably just as they were meant to be.
But most of all, I'd recommend that anyone who is interested in this fraught and difficult subject read "Courtesans and Fishcakes," not because the author has all the answers, but because he argues that 5th C. Greeks weren't all wound up by sex--that's our problem, he says, and I think he has a point.
I completely agee. It doesn't have to be about sex. From what I understand the original intention of pederasty in the Spartan culture was to become mentors and guardians and made them responsible for instilling arete in their young charges. The values of courage, virtue and excellence to grow to become great soldiers and great citizens or aristocrats. To become the best that they could be. These I feel were worthy intentions. I think of 'Merlin and Arthur'. Merlin as Arthur's teacher and guardian. Lord knows the young men of today could well benefit from having more mentors guiding them instead of floundering trying to make their own way and cocasionally coming away with skewed views of themselves and the world.
The sexual aspect of pederasty, I find rather suspect and questionable and a prime hunting ground for sexual predators. As we've said, they exist now, they surely existed back then. I've read somewhere that anal intercourse with your young charge was a punishable criminal act in Sparta.
Another thing to think about is quite often, emotional love and physical sex are translated as the same thing, although we all seem to know they aren't synonymous in our common modern understanding.
