11-09-2008, 07:45 PM
I just stumbled over this thread ...
@ the horseshoe from Hagenbach: I doubt the dating of that horseshoe. The Hagenbach find was dug out by a excavating machine in a gravel pit over a long time, 1961 to 1973. The gravel is dug out under the groundwater level, the gravel from the top layers sliding down in the water, the machine excavating always from the deepest point of the pit. So there are no archeological strata, everything from modern to ancient times is collected in the deepest point. Sure, most finds are dated because they equal other finds with a secure dating. But this horseshoe would be very exceptional for late antiquity, while being normal for a medieval find. So, from what it equals, this is no Roman horseshoe as long as there is no better evidence to compare.
The exhibition of the horseshoe in connection with the Hagenbach Hortfund is in one way correct: it was dug out together with the other items. By a huge machine. But accrediting the same dating without other evidence, that is imho pretty questionable.
Another point, myself being a rider, too: I own an Iceland pony, and it definitely needs horseshoes when I ride much on concrete, macadam, gravel roads. Despite being of a "hard" race. My wife's got an Andalusian horse that never needed shoes. I think, it is a question of the upbreeding. My pony was borne and bred on soft meadows. Her horse was born and bred on hard, dry grounds, full of rocks.
I know from Iceland ponies in Iceland, a land full of hard, vulcanic stone, that they are used pretty hard, in two different ways: either being horseshoed, or with many horses to change during the ride. That means, nowadays (!) when the ranchers ride to their traditional gathering, the landsmot, then it is maybe five or six men riding 200 km to the meeting, driving a number of 30 horses with them and changing the horses almost every hour. The horses without riders don't suffer from abrasion as much as the others, because they don't carry extra weight and because they decide themselves where they put their feet. But the Icelanders have no problems in nailing a somehow fitting horseshoe on a horse during the trip, without the service of a blacksmith, if they see that abrasion goes too far.
Back to Rome: as long as the horses have hard hoofs and there is a system of exchange, there should not be much trouble without horseshoes. The horse sandals, that are made to be tied on, are probably only for special situations, steep ascents e.g. I think, they were removed as soon as possible, because the tying could cause sores, and the pretty flat iron soles would be abraded quite fast. A modern horseshoe with a thickness of about 8 mm doesn't last longer than two times being nailed on, say 10 to 12 weeks when I ride an average of 6 hours a week. That is max. 70 hours of use for 8 mm Iron. The soles of these horse sandals look thinner and would be worn off within a couple of days under a working horse, if they had been on allday use.
Antique authors, as far as I recall, knew well about how important hard hoofs are. When I remember right, Vitruvius recommends in his "X libris de architecturae" to build the floors of horse stables from oak wood, because it is a hard and (if cleaned regularly) dry surface because that is good for hard hoofs.
So far my two Eurocent,
Stefan
@ the horseshoe from Hagenbach: I doubt the dating of that horseshoe. The Hagenbach find was dug out by a excavating machine in a gravel pit over a long time, 1961 to 1973. The gravel is dug out under the groundwater level, the gravel from the top layers sliding down in the water, the machine excavating always from the deepest point of the pit. So there are no archeological strata, everything from modern to ancient times is collected in the deepest point. Sure, most finds are dated because they equal other finds with a secure dating. But this horseshoe would be very exceptional for late antiquity, while being normal for a medieval find. So, from what it equals, this is no Roman horseshoe as long as there is no better evidence to compare.
The exhibition of the horseshoe in connection with the Hagenbach Hortfund is in one way correct: it was dug out together with the other items. By a huge machine. But accrediting the same dating without other evidence, that is imho pretty questionable.
Another point, myself being a rider, too: I own an Iceland pony, and it definitely needs horseshoes when I ride much on concrete, macadam, gravel roads. Despite being of a "hard" race. My wife's got an Andalusian horse that never needed shoes. I think, it is a question of the upbreeding. My pony was borne and bred on soft meadows. Her horse was born and bred on hard, dry grounds, full of rocks.
I know from Iceland ponies in Iceland, a land full of hard, vulcanic stone, that they are used pretty hard, in two different ways: either being horseshoed, or with many horses to change during the ride. That means, nowadays (!) when the ranchers ride to their traditional gathering, the landsmot, then it is maybe five or six men riding 200 km to the meeting, driving a number of 30 horses with them and changing the horses almost every hour. The horses without riders don't suffer from abrasion as much as the others, because they don't carry extra weight and because they decide themselves where they put their feet. But the Icelanders have no problems in nailing a somehow fitting horseshoe on a horse during the trip, without the service of a blacksmith, if they see that abrasion goes too far.
Back to Rome: as long as the horses have hard hoofs and there is a system of exchange, there should not be much trouble without horseshoes. The horse sandals, that are made to be tied on, are probably only for special situations, steep ascents e.g. I think, they were removed as soon as possible, because the tying could cause sores, and the pretty flat iron soles would be abraded quite fast. A modern horseshoe with a thickness of about 8 mm doesn't last longer than two times being nailed on, say 10 to 12 weeks when I ride an average of 6 hours a week. That is max. 70 hours of use for 8 mm Iron. The soles of these horse sandals look thinner and would be worn off within a couple of days under a working horse, if they had been on allday use.
Antique authors, as far as I recall, knew well about how important hard hoofs are. When I remember right, Vitruvius recommends in his "X libris de architecturae" to build the floors of horse stables from oak wood, because it is a hard and (if cleaned regularly) dry surface because that is good for hard hoofs.
So far my two Eurocent,
Stefan
Ulfwin, the Hunno
(Stefan Deuble)
(Stefan Deuble)
