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Share Your Greek Artwork
ahahah fine!
Non auro sed ferro recuperanda est patria
Nulla alia gens tanta mole cladis obruta esset
[Image: vasolib30240105up4.jpg]

Francesco Saverio Quatrano
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Revised version,looks a bit more like the real me.Still,it's difficult to imitate the real style of coinage,especially when you have to transfer it from a real photo like i did. The coin itself,the beard and the crest are made by hand. The rest is a combination of painting and lightining/shadow changes.
Khairete
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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That looks great! Well done, very nice job. The only things that's missing is an inscription of your name Big Grin
Scott B.
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I know...i was wanting to include it,but my name is not ancient,and i would have to make the coin bigger and i didn't want to. After all,it's not that there weren't such coins without inscriptions :wink:
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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I take pictures while watching movies. This one has a little editing. Enjoy![attachment=0:u8cp8mfe]<!-- ia0 Statue-Leonidas with Poem.jpg<!-- ia0 [/attachment:u8cp8mfe]
Craig Bellofatto

Going to college for Massage Therapy. So reading alot of Latin TerminologyWink

It is like a finger pointing to the moon. DON\'T concentrate on the finger or you miss all the heavenly glory before you!-Bruce Lee

Train easy; the fight is hard. Train hard; the fight is easy.- Thai Proverb
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Hi all. I am an artist and sometime illustrator who stumbled on this forum recently. I have an craze for Thucydides and Xenofon, and my pet project is to illustrate the Peloponnesian War. I am here sharing the paintings I have done so far (some are in progress), in the hope of getting some interesting feedback from you experts! Cheers,

Nick

Athenian and Spartan Hoplites
[Image: athensvsspartasmall.jpg]

Pericles addressing the assembly
[Image: periclesultrafinalsmall.jpg]

Sphacteria, rights owned by Precis Intermedia
[Image: sphacteriafinalsmall.jpg]

Charge of the Spartans at Mantinea 418
[Image: mantineaoils3small.jpg]

Battle of Sybota, in progress
[Image: sybota433bcsmall.jpg]

Also Sybota, also in progress
[Image: seabattlesmall.jpg]
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Nice work. Some observations.Pericles would be in the agora as you painted him. But this is too much a detail and few people would know how the Athenian assembly looked like and where its relative position to the acropolis would be :roll: :wink: However,you should add a bit of colour on their clothes. Greeks wore hardly only white,like their buildings were hardly white. Pericles was said to have a bold and oblong head, that's why the artists preffered to cover it with a helmet. Come to think of it: Pericles was NOT a warrior,and yet,he's the only one whos bust has a helmet in the fifth century!

In the last painting of the naval battle,although the trirremes are correctly painted,their relative size with the humans is wrong. Trirremes were about 5 m wide on their deck.
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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Thanks for the comments! So, what kind of colour schemes would be used on the clothes? I know Ifigenia is supposed to have worn a saffron garment, according to Aeschylus. And purple was the royal colour. But in general, would all kinds of colour be represented? Would the entire cloth be dyed, or would patterns applied on white cloth be more common?

I am relieved to hear that the figures on the triremes have to be bigger. Painting those little ant like shapes has been driving me nuts! Smile

Cheers,

Nick
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The colours would be all kinds of shades of blue,yellow(though not considered very manly in Athens),green,red,purple,brown etc. Emroidery could be a stipe of different colour,even tyrian purple for the wealthy. Some times they had decoration all over the cloth, like little stars,dots, combinations of the two etc. These for the even more wealthy.
Of course white cloth would also be used. It was used by priests and as sort of formal religious colour,but certainly not considered a "sacred" colour.
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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Excellent, thanks!
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Great images Nikias! Very nicely done. I especially liked the Sphacteria painting. It showed a very interesting and terrifying point of view behind the Athenian line -- excellently captured!
Scott B.
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My thanks! The Sphacteria image now graces the cover of Precis Intermedias' "A Fistfull of Miniatures" game.
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I will have to ask how come yellowish golden (probably around 10% tin content which is low) bronze is by some strange curse always, but ALWAYS - in 99.9% of the cases The first and only choice for depicting bronze armor.
Why is that when it is one of the lousiest choices of among all types of bronze for arms or armor.

And most importantly from what I have seen so far it was almost never used..only one in 15-20 helmets(using helmets simply because of their numbers found from various eras) seems to be made made out of this/or similar(copper) SOFT bronze alloy,and most of those pieces tend to be later Classical to Hellenistic era.
And we all know what those times did to bronze armor..
I will be happy to prove it by the way.

One in 20 maybe, but chance for seeing 5 yellow corinthians one next to other, plus with matching "golden" armor...was probably as low as seeing Poseidon himself.

By the way,this is not critic just for work of "Nikias" but a critic of a trend that seems to be going on, which is,(yet again) completely unfounded. The trend made by commercial blacksmiths who use brass,copper,steel or low tin bronze at best, for the ease of production(remember we hardly have a clue on true process of corinthian helmet production) and lower prices..
The trend which was advertised by "experts" like History channel,Osprey and Hollywood..And very few recognize that,and very few are bothered. God knows why, because it is as false representation as painting lambda on archaic/or early classical/ hoplite or horns on a viking helmet...

And also, I was also drawing golden hoplites until my first visit to National Archaeological Museum in Athens, and Olympia museum(same trip) in 2005.

All best
Aleksandar Nikic

????? ?????? ???? ??????????? ?????????? ? ???? .....
..said the 143 kg stone,for a testimony of still unseen feat of strenght.
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Eeerm, I don't really see a point anywhere near to well founded. You saw some helmets retrieved from the ground after 2500 years,and i bet they were somewhere between the range of black-green, with a few being reddish and some others having a light brown-dark yellow shade. This is only different kinds of patina,largely dependent on the conditions the helmet was in and much less to the exact alloy. Actually it seems that all the metal analyses of archaic and classical bronze are near 10% zinc. Which when beaten can become very hard actually!
Now,this will be my last atempt to convince you,since you repeatedly try to question evidenced views against not evidenced ones,some times not in the politest way.
There are very very few bronze items that have maintained their polish to a degree that their original colour can be seen. I have seen some greaves in the Thessaloniki archaeologial museum that have some stunning preservation. They weren't burriend in the ground but found on the graves in Derveni,and this might have helped their preservation.
[Image: DSC02268.jpg?t=1277655708]
I wish you could see this seccond pair better,but i couldn't use flash and it was dark over there. They were almost mirror polish and almost gold yellow. I spent a lot of time trying to ensure they weren't guilded,but i found no trace,and actually all the vases and bronze objects found in that tomb were as well preserved!
[Image: DSC02271.jpg?t=1277655698]
[Image: dervenaweapons.jpg?t=1277655697]
I have also seen pieces of repolished bronze and they were all very yellow.
Now we also have the evidence of art. Show me one coloured depiction of bronze armour in ancient art that it has any other colour than yellow. Here are some examples,and they're only very few
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... 1277655711
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... 1277655688
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... 1277655685
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... 1277655671
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... 1277655642
Not to mention the many sources who speak about the gleaming bronze,reflecting the sun! Or about the helots after the battle of Plataea who couldn't distinguish gold from bronze and where fooled by other greeks who bough gold in the price of bronze!

So here we are,tell me the evidence about the black-green bronze armour and the foundations of your complains.
I will agree with you that in most cases yellow brass doesn't look as good as bronze,not so much because it is yellow,but because it is not the right kind of yellow. My phosphor bronze helmets are not very yellow,more redish i would say,but ancient bronze was yellower!
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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Quote:Eeerm, I don't really see a point anywhere near to well founded. You saw some helmets retrieved from the ground after 2500 years,and i bet they were somewhere between the range of black-green, with a few being reddish and some others having a light brown-dark yellow shade. This is only different kinds of patina

Actually, I know what patina is.And 2500 are actually not that much.And since oxidation of bronze only covers the original,there are quite well preserved parts of bronze armor.Nothing strange there.


Quote:Now,this will be my last atempt to convince you,since you repeatedly try to question evidenced views against not evidenced ones,some times not in the politest way.

It is the benefit of the second opinion.
And since you mentioned it - there is very little actually evidenced views. I am surprised you even said that. Only accepted speculations,because we today,just need to have a final saying.We can not admit that we just don’t have an idea,or at least not the whole picture of what was going on…

And please don’t try to bring this down to a personal level.


Quote:There are very very few bronze items that have maintained their polish to a degree that their original colour can be seen.

Meaning everything I am about to show are actually "golden" helmets,just unpolished?
Ok..I will be happy to learn that,believe it or not.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.p ... 38b245.jpg

10% zinc is brass, hardly bronze.Many of these don't look brass...

And here are few more for your gallery just to see I am not denying the existence of yellows.Just challenging the percent of it.Especially in earlier times.And if we can see yellow here,clearly.Why do you think the dark color we see on even better preserved parts(above) is false...

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/a66adde944.jpg


Quote:Show me one coloured depiction of bronze armour in ancient art that it has any other colour than yellow. Here are some examples,and they're only very few

Coincidentally colored depictions starting only in what..4 BC? So it does not prove much for corinthians I was mainly concerned about.

I would rather stick to the actual armor like you presented.


Giannis K. Hoplite\\n[quote]Not to mention the many sources who speak about the gleaming bronze,reflecting the sun! Or about the helots after the battle of Plataea who couldn't distinguish gold from bronze and where fooled by other greeks who bough gold in the price of bronze!

Now I am not sure why do you think darker bronze can not be polished and shine in sun...etc

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/b5637a35fd.jpg

And I am sure you heard of so called Hepatizon. Just to say taste for dark bronze did exist...And I will not even start on statues/statuettes.Why don't make them golden as well if they liked the color so much?Wouldn't it make more sense

All best
Aleksandar Nikic

????? ?????? ???? ??????????? ?????????? ? ???? .....
..said the 143 kg stone,for a testimony of still unseen feat of strenght.
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