Were the Germans physically superior?

[Epictetus]

Thanks for taking the time to do this. Besides the topic of this thread, I've been interested in overall migration patterns for a long time. This is good information.

[Alanus]

Siggi,

Wait a minute!! hock:

Whatever happened to the "sterotype German" who was only "large" because Tacitus and Polybius wanted all the Romans to believe that "savages" were big ungainly barbarians who needed to be whittled down to civilized size. Supposedly, as mentioned by someone, the further away from Rome these savages lived the bigger they legendarily got, which would make the One-Eyed Men virtual giants. :wink:

Now we are faced with archaeological statements like "larger-than-average height" and "tall!" Even the Goths, who supposedly weren't Germanic at all.

I maintain that Germans were actually midgets who projected themselves through elongated mirrors that only gave the appearance that they were tall, whilst other Germans obviously ran into battle wearing stilts. You can fool some of the Romans some of the time, but you can't fool all the Romans all of the time.

[Simplex]

...you got it,man ! :mrgreen:
A nice side effect on the Roman side: Making your enemy larger keeps your military budget up . 8)

Greez

Simplex

[Astiryu1]

As I've said: I doubt Germans were physically superior; and if we could have a weaponless contest between Jet Li and Andre the Giant, I would still bet on Jet. :lol:

I am 6'2" myself and around 190 lbs and the guy in my Taekwondo class that gave me the most trouble while sparring was my friend Sid. He is from India about 5'10" and 150 lbs. of concentrated lightning. I am considered to be fast but he blows me away. I do have more reach and strength so I am somewhat saved. We have alot of fun sparring.

I would bet on Jet as well.

[Alanus]

Craig,

Of course I said that in jest, but there may be a hint of truth behind it.
They say Bruce Lee-- a virtual fly-weight-- could land a punch, only one inch from the opponent, that pushed the man across the room.

Physically superior is a state of mind. :wink:

[Astiryu1]

I agree!!! It is not what you have but how you use it that distinguishes superiority. A staff in the hands of a common man is useful, the same staff in the hands of Jet Li is the stuff of legend.

I myself gravitate towards striking arts because of reach and build.I am not a very good groundfighter due to medium sized build. A shorter or heavier build naturally has the advantage in grappling. Leverage is the one thing I have while close besides elbows and knees. Training always has a large part in whatever undertaking a person participates in. Physics are too! It is the space in between where one finds advantages and supplements personal techniques to overcome opposition.

[Ingvar Sigurdson]

An Anglo-Saxon cemetary that held males skeletons displaying signs of combat trauma, ranged in heights that could be compared to English males today, from fve feet four inches to six foot plus.

Ingvar

[Astiryu1]

Which is average height for males through most of the world today. I have always believed there is not that much difference physically. I understand the Victorian era myths were widely common knowledge until about 50 years ago with the advent of carbon dating and DNA testing the fog of war is slowly being lifted. Now most people that read laugh at the Victorians and cry at the same time. All the things that were ruined. We are just getting over all of the entrenched misinformation of the period. I will give the Victorians this though they took the time to at least care and without that where would any of us be?

[Alanus]

Yes,

The Victorians-- having the perfect Germanic royal family to adore-- were bullishly pro-German this and that; and subsequently, in their minds, the so-called big strapping German was looked upon as the quinticential hero-- aka a gigantic statue of Arminius, alias Hermann the German. Under this kind of influence, how could those little Italians ever resist the "manly" incursions of Valhallic heroes for as long as they did? :roll:

[Astiryu1]

Don't forget the statue of Boudicca. They were very good artists but not great historians.

[Alanus]

Ah, Boudica (or however you spell it),

Driving her chariot with kiddies in tow, while wearing a tutu or some sort of Amazonian nightie. I suppose it never occurred to the sculptor that she probably wore trousers, as did the real Amazons.

[Astiryu1]

A Thief,Amazonian, Valkyrie. I would like to see the Victorian book dedicated to this :!: :lol:

[Alanus]

Oh yes!

Sandahl Bergman in an outfit cut from the theatrical version. I have it on the director's Collector Edition, plus personally signed by "Rexor" (Ben Davidson). :lol:

I suppose in this case we might say that Bergman and Schwartzenegger were "physically superior." :wink:

[Sean Manning]

Siggi,

Wait a minute!! hock:

Whatever happened to the "sterotype German" who was only "large" because Tacitus and Polybius wanted all the Romans to believe that "savages" were big ungainly barbarians who needed to be whittled down to civilized size. Supposedly, as mentioned by someone, the further away from Rome these savages lived the bigger they legendarily got, which would make the One-Eyed Men virtual giants. :wink:

Now we are faced with archaeological statements like "larger-than-average height" and "tall!" Even the Goths, who supposedly weren't Germanic at all.

I maintain that Germans were actually midgets who projected themselves through elongated mirrors that only gave the appearance that they were tall, whilst other Germans obviously ran into battle wearing stilts. You can fool some of the Romans some of the time, but you can't fool all the Romans all of the time.

Hi Alanus,

In your eagerness to make a joke I can't tell where those phrases like "larger-than-average height" and "tall" come from. From Siggi's figures, it looks like Germans may have been around 5 cm taller than average Greeks or Italians. Its good to have trustworthy evidence for that, and its a much smaller difference than some of the suggestions different people were throwing around!

I'll have to follow up some of those English-language sources Siggi quotes.

[Simplex]

Hi Sean,
...... no problem "wit da jokes" on my side. :wink:
In my zest for making my lines understandable to english speaking individua, I tend to translate the original top-lines of german language papers too.
So the only paper in english actually is the Danish one. The others are in German. Sorry for that.
I'm not positive whether there is an english version of one of the Wahl/Kokabi-papers on Stettfeld, because my memories seemed to have played tricks with me quite often in the recent past.
As for averages or medians I thinke there will be a lot more data coming in/being published in the near future as computers help very much in gaining mathematically reliable data and there seem to
be some viable algorithms made up to be put into programs that help here. There's a lot of bone in them museums magazines' and a lot of books and paper already published on antique cemeterys and graveyards
that can/could be exploited for statistics.
From an outside view I'd say that there are enough diplomas/degrees to be "won" with that stuff.
Greez
Simplex
Who thinks about changing his alias to "Conan Da Librarian". :mrgreen: