Hoplite Shield Designs

[Marcus Germanicus Ferox]

Hi There

New to the Greek Forum so be gentle! Am currently sourcing and buying my Hoplite kit and have been chatting to Paul. He advises me this is a topic for STEPHANOS - so if you're out there mate I need to know more about shield designs and different types of hoplite. Could you explain more to me about Greek heraldry before I choose a shield device.

Many thanks

Mark.

[hoplite14gr]

Well come Mark.
Please treat this as suggestion.
First decide on the period
Archaic Era: 700 650 B.C.
Family clan emblems or individual devices are predominant.
Clasical Era: 650-450
City states strat gradualy adopting emblems. (Moon for Platea, Pegasus for Korinthos or Farsala) Elite units might vary from the city emblem.
Late Clasical 450-350
Most cities ravaged by war rely mainly on the city monogram and cheaper equipment i.e. A=Athens T= Torone and the L for Spartans
Hellenistic Era: 350 - 146 hoplon shield is dropped in favor smaller pikeman's shield and peltast carrly large shields like the Celts (THYREOPHOROI). The League's monogram predominates over the city emblem.
Some Tharcian clans have been identified too.
Please tell me what you are thinking of renacting and I can try to be more specific. If you have browsed through the thread you might seen me throwing heraldry info hear and there. Feel free to contact me and I will guide you as I did with Commerus with his Philip outfit.
Unfortunatelly nobody yet showed interest to publish the knowledge that
Giorgos and I have aquired n the subject so I can coach you only on individual basis.
Kind regards
Stefanos

[Marcus Germanicus Ferox]

Hi Stephanos

Thanks for the reply. Kit so far is as follows - Italo Corinthian Helmet (no crest), Machaira, Brass Muscle Cuirass and Greaves and sandals. I have not yet sorted my Dora or Aspis. My Dora will be between 7' and 9' long which I will make myself and Paul is getting some shields I believe in the new year. I quite fancy a "Pegasus" on the shield as it was also used by the Second Augustan Legion, a soldier of which I also portray.

Regards

Mark

[Tib. Gabinius]

Hi,
i m not Stefanos but perhaps this will help you also.
Next year a small book will apear:
Schildzeichen in der griechischen Vasenmalerei von Regina Attula.

In translation it means: shield design in greek vasepaintings, from Regina Attula.

Perhaps you will wait with your paintings till its out and someone can help ya

[hoplite14gr]

Hi Stephanos

Thanks for the reply. Kit so far is as follows - Italo Corinthian Helmet (no crest), Machaira, Brass Muscle Cuirass and Greaves and sandals. I have not yet sorted my Dora or Aspis. My Dora will be between 7' and 9' long which I will make myself and Paul is getting some shields I believe in the new year. I quite fancy a "Pegasus" on the shield as it was also used by the Second Augustan Legion, a soldier of which I also portray.

Regards

Mark

First thanks Tobias for the book info.
Mark please note
Pegasus comes in two variations red Pegasus Ferrae -Thessaly or white Pegasus -Korinthos(Corinth). Korinthos had a lot of colonies. Possibly Corinthian traders or colonists indroduced the machera-kopis (falcata)from Spain to the others. Syracusae was Korinthian colony and employed Korinthian troops regularly. If the persona you reenact was among the AYTOCHTHONES -"natives ingigenous" families who could trace their linage to the Bronze age he would probably have snake decoration on the inside of his shield. If he had won a contest in the Isthmia games he would have the pine tree allong with his Pegassus. If he was a Nemea winner he could add oak leaves wraith arround the Pegasus. If we was Olympic winner he would possibly have the Kotinos arround or over the Pegassus.
If he was winner on Pythia he would have some laurel decorationon his helmet. Korinthians were rich enought to have purple cloth decorations and Fereans had the best crests due to the Thessalian hose breeding tradition. Theoreticaly the Korinthian would have more "exotic" items on his kit and the Thessalian would be more traditional.
If you tel me wich one you choose I can perhaps add more.
Kind regards
Stefanos

[Marcus Germanicus Ferox]

Hello again Stephanos

I like the idea of a "Born and Bred" Corinthian, but lets not get too carried away. A good soldier but not necessarily an Olympic Hero! ie, maybe the Pegasus and the Snake - we'll save all the laurels for later. I would like a really good crest sometime but as I explained to Paul am unsure how to attach it as the helmet has no fittings like my Roman Gallic and Itallic helmets. The helmet is a little different from the Deepeeka ones commonly used, it is more like the example in the British Museum, longer nasal piece and cheekplates. It has the brow ridge but no eyebrows.

Over to you mate!

Mark.

[hoplite14gr]

Mark, sorry if I overloaded you with info.
I just wanted to show you the extend of possibilities.
So the white pegasus of Korinthos will adorn you shield.
Korinthos Ferae 1-0. Good man!
If you did not had the bronze cuirass the snakes would be on the shoulders of linothorax.
The Italo-Corinthian helemet would be perfect for this interpretation.
If you plan to decorate the rim of the shield the sea-wave decoration might be preferable to the menadros based on the fact that Korinthos was maritime power. Alsohttp://ifyou are not opposite to the idea of reancting a colonist Korinthian some exotic items like a celtic dagger would not be out of place or persomal items aquired in the colonial markets.
It all depends on your preferences
Kind regards
Stefanos

[Marcus Germanicus Ferox]

Thanks Stefanos

Just as a sideline - I have family in Crete - What would Hoplites, if there were any, been like from here. I will be there for most of July next year and want to take my kit to get some good promotional photos done. Any shield designs for this area - same period though.

Cheers

Mark.

[hoplite14gr]

Yes Mark after the Dorean establishment in Crete the hoplite warfare was developed there too.
Knossos developed a swastix with with counter clock wise turn an four black circles in each quarter of the central cross. Eleftherna had a charging bull.
Ierapytna two hippokampoi facing eaxh other and the "epillecktoi" elite hoplites the sea god Nireas. You can see Ierapytna in the Spartan warband webpage. Lyktos had the wild goat known as kri-kri today that still lives in the mountain of Psilorites.
Festos had a white lilly in red background like the one appearing in the "Minoan prince" fresco. Follow this link for Festos:
http://s8.invisionfree.com/Bronze_Age_C ... id=3939648
Kind regards
Stefanos

[john m roberts]

Marcus:
Crete had its own variant of the Corinthian helmet, without a nasal, with an almost straight lower edge and with subtle scalloping along the cheekline. The Metropolitan Museum in New York has two such helmets and they are to my eyes two of the very handsomest of all Classical helmets. I have pics I can email to you if you don't have them already.

[Marcus Germanicus Ferox]

Hi John

Thanks for the info - would love to see some pictures John. And Stefanos, many thanks again you really are a treasure trove of knowledge. Do you think a Cretian Hoplite with the kit I have in mind would be as credible as the Corinthian?

Also what part of Greece are you from? Will you be here in June for the festival? I will send you my email address if you would like to contact me. Many thanks again.

Need to find a name for this Hoplite now, may need some help later chaps!

Kind Regards

Ferox.

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Possibly Corinthian traders or colonists indroduced the machera-kopis (falcata)from Spain to the others.

Salve.

It's curious to read it, because in Spain some people think that was the greek people who introduced the kopis and the iberian copy it an make their falcata. It was argued by the concentration of falcata swords in geographic zones with another kind of greek trade (atic ceramic).

If you want, we can start another topic to discuss that

[hoplite14gr]

Cesar it is a mater of speculation. All Greek Bronze Age swords and Classical xifos are straight. Based on the fact that tradition weigh heavily in the old times it seems more plausible that kopis was an "imported" item. On the other hand hoplite weapons were subject to evolution so the supporter of the Greeks indroducing kopis to the west have a strong argument too. Better we start a topic on this and see what people know.

John is right Mark because certain items in New York and Herackio museums give a variation of the corinthian helmet but Cretans were colonists too and hoplites purchased their equipment so the more "traditional" Corinthian helmet is not out of place. The "Cretan vesrion" variants of the corinthian helmet are decorated and seem the property of a distinguished individual not just a hoplite of the line.
So do not worry, the Cretan could have a more "traditional" Corinthian helmet; only the shield designs could be different.
Only perhaps the "epilektoi" (chosen ones) elite hoplits of each city who were armed by the state would have a greater degree of Uniformity.
Kind regards

[Marcus Germanicus Ferox]

Hi Stephanos

Did you get get your PM? - I might have done it wrong. All the names you give for the different devices, can you post any pictures of? I have seen the Pegasus and sea wave now but not sure what I am looking for elsewhere - "hippokamppoi" - Horse what? Ierapytna - is that the face with the tongue out? - and what did Nireas look like? Also what colour would the background be behind Pegasus? Does it matter? Just not keen on black, as in the Manning Imperial shield.

Regards

Mark.

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Hi,Mark.

I have at home the web address for a
site that has pictures of Greek shield
designs for many periods(early,middle,late).
When I get home tonight I will find it and
post it here for you.

I believe it is actually for gamers, but is
very good for showing these designs.
When combined with Stefanos interpretations
you should have a variety of choices.