Why can\'t we all just work together! Deva 2012

[P Sertorius Scaevola]

Yet you wil get your toga upgraded to proper specs will you now?!

I checked a lot of Chester Festival pics and only noticed a single Trooper helmet and a few galvanised mail shirts. Other than that it was as good as it could be for a mass display. so hear hear!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yet you wil get your toga upgraded to proper specs will you now?!

I checked a lot of Chester Festival pics and only noticed a single Trooper helmet and a few galvanised mail shirts. Other than that it was as good as it could be for a mass display. so hear hear!

Damn!! How did I miss that trooper helm??? :razz:

Guess after being flooded with them at Rome, it was easy to miss! mile:

[Mergus]

The Toga actually does have a Clavus, just does not show it on the photos. I will see if I can find a better one!

[Nurglitch]

Why then, with 90% of the UK and European re-enactors on side,

Dude... wait, what?

There's more legionaries in Poland alone then participated in the Chester event. Where are you getting this from?

[Mergus]

Okay, fair enough, your English is a lot better than my Polish, so I will correct the Grammar to reflect what was meant;
with 90& of the UK; and European re-enactors on side
that better now?
No doubt get flamed by an English Grammar student now.
But Piotr, why are you wanting to stir wherever you can? Do you not want to be part of the largest Roman event in the UK? If your purist sensibilities were offended by the few inaccuracies then the answer is simple, don't come next year. But don't try and spoil it for those who do.
As for the figures, I do not have a list of every registered Roman re-enactor in Europe, if someone wants to start compiling one great. I know the UK figures and who attended, and if you want to be totally accurate I will indeed give you the fact that 90% is inaccurate, more like 86.2635% of UK Roman Re-enactors (Roman of course including the Iron Age Brits as well as later centuries).
Divided we are few, united we are LEGION!

[Nurglitch]

that better now?

Sure. A simple misunderstanding there, no need to get wound up.


As to the rest - our goals in re-enactment differ.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Oh yeah, what exactly are your Goals Pytor, and again what if any group are you with?
And what are my goals? Can you list them? :wink:
Are you involved with Cezary's group? I know he has raised their standard a lot since I saw them
the first time in Rome.
But you attached your self right behind me in the line and yet you didn't notice the better quality kit under your nose....I am sure I can dig up quite afew photos of the Polish groups and pick many holes in them too, but thats not the point, the point is, they are improving.
As are we all.

[Nurglitch]

Oh yeah, what exactly are your Goals Pytor, and again what if any group are you with?

Getting the kit that's as functionally close to the original as I can and letting it work. I'm always curious about how something worked and how I can get it to work. I do a lot of things like for example washing with olive oil and a strigil for a week, like walking in caligae for week and a half and so on. Let's call it amateur experimental archaeology. Right now my main goal is to get rid of the ridiculously heavy Indian gear and get myself something with better handling characteristics. Oh, and an armour that doesn't cut circulation in my left hand.


And what are my goals? Can you list them? :wink:


For psychics, press 5
:}


Are you involved with Cezary's group?

Correct.


But you attached your self right behind me in the line and yet you didn't notice the better quality kit under your nose....

I did.
Sigh... sorry, I feel like someone who pointed out bad spelling on a blackboard and is being shouted at because there's plenty of good spelling there as well. This is a kindergarten level of oversensitivity. How will you ever improve if everyone just pats your behind and tell you what a good boy you are for trying so hard?


I am sure I can dig up quite afew photos of the Polish groups and pick many holes in them too, but thats not the point, the point is, they are improving.


And that's because there's plenty of people who pick holes and make them aware of those. Groups with "everyone is a winner, everyone is special" attitude stagnate. There's plenty of those in reenactment.
By all means, pick holes, point out inaccuracies, correct me where I am wrong. I will be grateful for that. Honestly and without any irony.

[ANTONIVS MAGNVS]

Most of you have been re-enacting for a very long time. Some here are historians, writers, scholars... I'll give you my perspective as a very new recruit who has attended exactly ONE event with a second coming up this week-end.

I'm not a scholar, I didn't go to university, I'm not an historian but I love Roman history. I collect ancient Roman coins and I read lots of books. I'm Italian and go to Italy once a year. I'm very knowledgeable about Roman history but new to specific Roman military history and attire.

My goal in re-enactment is to go out and have fun while being as accurate as possible within certain limits. I'm not going to spend several thousands of dollars for a hand forged helmet or segmentata that I'm going to wear once or twice a year. I'm going to make whatever I can myself but I'm willing to buy things off the shelf too. I got into re-enactment to get a feel for Roman life and to feed my passion for history. In the end it is a hobby (one of many) so it's not a big deal to me if a plate on my belt isn't based on an actual find because that can always be changed out later or if my tunic is machine sewn (it isn't). Spectators aren't walking around with find catalogs to see if the apron studs on our belts are accurate. My goal is to go out and have fun and maybe inspire others to want to learn more about history.

I'm very practical about it and I see both sides. Some people may take themselves too seriously and others not seriously enough. I'm willing to take any constructive criticism and work on making my kit better but I would never look down on someone else for trying. We can all learn from each other and I think we all know what part of our kit needs improving anyway...

If a happy medium can be found then we'll all be the better for it because it will help new recruits feel welcome and included. The old timers should set a high standard in their own kit as something we new recruits can aspire to achieve.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

No I am anythink but childish, :-P . (most of the time) But you do make statements.... :mrgreen:
All of us here, with possibly some exceptions, are trying to get functionally correct kit.

I think you will only stop having a numb left hand by padding out your scutum hole, and changing to
a hamata. I couldn't quite see what you were wearing under that all encompasing burlap bag you had on?,
but I assume it was a seg? I spent several months with a usless left hand after filming for the BBC,
no padding, and the scutum digging into my hand and the armour digging into my inside arm.


I imagine Cezary will gladly have Robert make you some good kit, and at a better rate than I get

[Nurglitch]

I think you will only stop having a numb left hand by padding out your scutum hole, and changing to
a hamata. I couldn't quite see what you were wearing under that all encompasing burlap bag you had on?,
but I assume it was a seg?

Scutum hole is padded. The problem is with DSC workmanship. I ordered a seg made to size and they've done it only partially. The cuirass is perfect, but the trunk has not been custom made and is just a regular, standard size. It is simply too wide for me, I can't even stand at attention as the seg is preventing it. It's sort of ok until I grab a scutum. Then it becomes hell.

I'm sending it to Poland for alterations soon, probably will have each trunk segment cut by 0.5cm on each side and the buckles moved. Hopefuly this will work. This way or that I'm probably going to get myself a squamata as well.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yes, it is enough to cause problems.
I was lucky to have one custom made( well 2 now), but my first one was
massively oversized.
But the one I had the hand issue with was the custom one. But that was
from not padding the hand hole.
But they are pretty solid pieces of kit when they fit.
I have squamata too, just have to field test it now.
I was not a fan of squamata at first, but now with some experience, I can see it's values.

[Robert Vermaat]

I think in the end we all agree with each other, it is just put forward from different points of view!

It depends on the how and where. It's like you say about the Deva event: "the public do not care". Which would mean we could hire 400-odd students, dress them up with props from the 'Galdiator' movie (or worse recent ones) and create an even bigger impact. After all, the public does not see the dreadpul kit, nor finds fault with the bad marching, etc. they see a mass of 'Romans'.

However, the organisation did not do this, they invited all of the UK Roman groups and even a few from the continent - apparently, quality matters? So thereofre, I think that the goals of each group matters as well - and each group, in their own way, try to improve their individual and collective impression of a Roman soldier.

That's why we can and should point out flaws, but without the sharp tones. ALWAYS be constructive, never shoot at a person. Especially if you want your event to grow, no need to antagonise people. :wink:

[Mergus]

I will stick by my statement that for the most part the public don't care. Thats why the film Gladiator was such a success while more recent and more accurate films are not. Thats also why the plastics in Rome make enough money to survive. And yes, we probably could hire 400 students, dress them up in the stuff left over from Hollywood and get away with it.
However, as an organiser, part of the enjoyment is seeing all the groups together. And yes, quality matters, and all of the re-enactment groups do strive for quality. And indeed, flaws should be discussed.
Unfortunately, as re-enactors as well as event organisers we do not get to play at this event. I would love to have got into my Roman gear and enjoyed my hobby. Unfortunately all I could wear was a very unauthentic Roman Tours hi vis vest! Unfortunately this whole thread was started because of the very negative pointing out of these minor flaws in a public way, without any comment on all of the good points. I ain't shouting (or shooting for that matter), nor antagonising, that has already been done. Just using the forum to add my view

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, there were enough people asking pertinent questions for me to believe there is an element
ogf the public who do care. However, if the uncaring masses want to come and see us 'authentics', let them come!

I hope we can get this event to a Cohort size in the near future.
Then onto a Legion! :grin: