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Sassanian body armour - cuirass
#16
Found it on Scribd
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24274587/The-A...D-volume-2
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#17
Quote:Found it on Scribd
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24274587/The-A...D-volume-2

Thank you. I have that. It was the drawings and caption appearing to be on the same page that deceived me.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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#18
Most of the reconstructions I've seen have bands that encircle the leg. The Ai Khanoum example seems to just cover the outer leg. That would make it easier to use from horseback since the thighs would be better able to control the horse. The problem is that I still can't see how it would articulate as illustrated in the primary sources. Either the reconstructions are wrong, the illustrations are wrong, or there is something else being worn on the legs. Perhaps the reconstructions are dodgy. There was talk about floating rivets on a thread last year in a Roman context. It would be interesting to see how, for example, a manica articulated with floating rivets would function.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#19
I agree that the bands could not encircle the leg but I doubt very much whether the ancient artists researched the practicalities of what they were trying to depict. They would have been giving an impression of what they thought to be the case. An exception may be the Firuzabad reliefs where the individual ties at the back of the legs can be seen.

You will be familiar with this thread:

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat.html?fu...&id=110351

Unfortunately, most of the photos on it are no longer available and the two of the mounted cataphract do not show the back of the legs. However, there is one of a dismounted cataphract which clearly shows the bands to cover the front of the legs with ties at the back. This seems to me to be a plausible reconstruction.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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#20
Quote:
Dan Howard post=296156 Wrote:Found it on Scribd
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24274587/The-A...D-volume-2

Thank you. I have that. It was the drawings and caption appearing to be on the same page that deceived me.

I didn't see any point keeping the whole book just for the one entry that interested me so I photoshopped the two relevant pages together and scrapped the rest.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#21
Thanks for the advice guys.

Do you think I should base my leg-protectors from the picture of the excavated set given in "Armies of Baktria" then? Does anyone have any more detailed information about these (such as how broad the strips were, where the semi-cylindrical plate ended and the bands started, how much of the leg was encircled) and what they were made of?

I have read about face-masks on helmets. Does anyone know of any that have been found?

Finally, does anyone know of any horse armour that was found, other than the two trappers at Dura?
Nadeem Ahmad

Eran ud Turan - reconstructing the Iranian and Indian world between Alexander and Islam
https://www.facebook.com/eranudturan
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#22
As far as I know, the Aï Khanoum leg armour is the only example of the type that has been published, so I do not think that you can go far wrong in modelling yours upon it. The excavations are published in P. Bernard et al, 'Campagne de fouille 1978 à Aï Khanoum (Afghanistan)', Bulletin de l'École Francaise d'Extrême-Orient 68 (1980), pp.1-103, and the leg armour is briefly described on p.60 with a photograph on Pl.XXXVII. Unfortunately, no measurements are given and the photograph does not have a scale. All that I can say of it (if I have read the French correctly) is that it is made of iron and reaches to mid-thigh. The text of the article can be found online here but the photograph is not reproduced. This is a copy of a photocopy that I took of it several years ago. It is not very good but it is better than the drawing, I think. Still, you would be better off seeing the photograph in the actual article, if you can, or at least getting a better copy of it.

[attachment=1810]AKhanoumlegarmour.jpg[/attachment]

There are plenty of Roman facemask helmets, of course, but I cannot think of a Sasanian one offhand. Likewise, I only know of the Dura horse armour. Others may be better informed.


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Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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#23
Thanks for the reference. I think we have that journal in our University library - I'll go check it on paper for a better photo at some point this week.
(I'll have to run the article through google translate!)
Thanks!
Nadeem Ahmad

Eran ud Turan - reconstructing the Iranian and Indian world between Alexander and Islam
https://www.facebook.com/eranudturan
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#24
So it turns out our library only stocks 1990 onwards of that journal.

Back on topic - I'll use the Kasr-e-Abu Nasr lamellae for a cuirass. Does anyone know where I can find the full details of the lamellae?
I know they have been briefly described in "A Sassanian Chieftain's helmet," but this doesn't give details of how much of the body it covered (if this is known) - whether it was just a cuirass for the torso, or whether it extended onto the arms and thighs like later Soghdian / Khorasani armour.

The following plate is too late for Sassanian (probably), it shows the full coat with an opening down the front.


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Nadeem Ahmad

Eran ud Turan - reconstructing the Iranian and Indian world between Alexander and Islam
https://www.facebook.com/eranudturan
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#25
There seems to be a problem. I have returned from a few days away to find an e-mail dated 6th October to the effect that Daryush had posted a new reply to this thread. I have followed the link in the e-mail and gone directly to the thread but in neither case do I find Daryush's post. Is this unique to me or have others had difficulty in accessing this post?
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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#26
Hi Renatus

I did in fact reply a few days ago, but then deleted it as there was nothing of any particular importance in the post (that wasn't against the rules, was it? Oops)

All I had said was that my library only stocks the journal from 1990 onwards, so unfortunately I wouldn't be able to get a better picture of the leg armour.
Nadeem Ahmad

Eran ud Turan - reconstructing the Iranian and Indian world between Alexander and Islam
https://www.facebook.com/eranudturan
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#27
On reflection, I thought that that might be the explanation. As far as I know, its not against the rules to delete a post you've thought better of.

Could your library get a copy of the relevant volume through an inter-library loan service? Even if this were confined to use within your library, you could see the photo itself and possibly make your own photocopy, which would be better than mine.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
Reply
#28
Quote:
daryush post=295913 Wrote:I have read some text sources stating that they wear "breastplates" (with no further information as to the type of breastplate) as well. Unfortunately can't remember where I read them though! They were quotes from ancient sources.
You'd better check the original text. Usually the only word you'll find is lorica which is just a general term for armour. It could mean "breastplate" but it could also mean any other kind of armour worn at the time.

Just thought I ought to follow this point up. I found Bivar's "Cavalry equipment and tactics on the Euphrates frontier." You are right, the words it give are "lorikion" and "jowshan."

I am not sure of the word "lorikion," but at least "jowshan" to me does not imply any particular type of armour. There are depictions from the later part of the empire showing lamellar, and lamellae were found in Kasr-e-Abu Nasr.
Nadeem Ahmad

Eran ud Turan - reconstructing the Iranian and Indian world between Alexander and Islam
https://www.facebook.com/eranudturan
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#29
Regarding breastplates in use by Sassanians - AW magazine seems to think they used iron/bronze ones, in the Greek fashion:
[spoiler][Image: d1309f408d3b.jpg][/spoiler]

I strongly disagree, however, since if those a tin covered bronze breastplates they aren't any more protective than mail + lamellar, and if those are iron ones, they would be terribly impractical to make with little added in protection.

@Renatus - Sassanids are known to have used face masks due to literary evidence, like Ammianus' famous "statues of metal" quote.
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#30
Quote:@Renatus - Sassanids are known to have used face masks due to literary evidence, like Ammianus' famous "statues of metal" quote.

Oh yes, I know that. I was referring to actual physical examples.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
Reply


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