Question about aspis/hoplon shield

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Hmmmm, definately rings a bell.....

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

He probably means the thread about Alexander the Great who was Macedonian and not Greek. I said something about none of the Greeks from antiquity having a national Greek identity, city states were more important to their notion of self. You were a Lacedaimonian or an Athenian, Corinthian, Megarian or whatever identity you were attached to. Then also I remember saying something about the funny aspect of present day Macedonia which pissess off the Greek nation big time... Something like that.

It is in my view not at all valid to attach a nationalist Greek sentiment to ancient history when speaking of the ancient Greek world. The only valid argument can be that the underlying culture could be called Greek.

M.VIB.M.

[joeandmich]

It may have had a different funtion, but i know of at least two representations (a vase painting and a terracota plaque) that show the aspis being hung on the back by that rope. My suggestion on why it had to be attached to so many points is that this would spready the weight of the shield to more than two points. The shield was very thin (0,6 cm at some parts) so this need of spreading the weight makes sense to me.
Also, its going around the rim prevents it from getting on your way when using the shield.
So it is not a theory that they hung it from that rope, but some people suggest it should have had an additional purpose...
Khaire
Giannis

So Giannis would you say this image below is an inaccurate depiction of the inside of an aspis?

[attachment=1623]spartan32.jpg[/attachment]

[Ghostmojo]

He probably means the thread about Alexander the Great who was Macedonian and not Greek. I said something about none of the Greeks from antiquity having a national Greek identity, city states were more important to their notion of self. You were a Lacedaimonian or an Athenian, Corinthian, Megarian or whatever identity you were attached to. Then also I remember saying something about the funny aspect of present day Macedonia which pissess off the Greek nation big time... Something like that.

It is in my view not at all valid to attach a nationalist Greek sentiment to ancient history when speaking of the ancient Greek world. The only valid argument can be that the underlying culture could be called Greek.

M.VIB.M.

What complete nonsense. You are just being evasive and dismissive.

Go and find that thread and respond there. To deny the notion of Greekness to the ancient Greeks is bizarre. Ancient views of nationalism (Greek or otherwise) may well be very different than modern ones - but they did exist. Any academic will tell you that. Yes dwellers of individual city-states viewed themselves as being from that place first; and then perhaps from their region; and of course from one of the four main ethnos; but untimately they were all Greeks (including the Dorian Makedones) and everybody else was a barbarian. I explained Alexander's particular cicumstances on that other thread. You probably just chose to ignore it because you couldn't answer.

Your ill-explained view (which seems to be little more than just a personal opinion without basis) about Alexander not being Greek and all the rest of it flies in the face of close to 99% of historic opinion. Unless of course you happen to writing from somewhere in FYROM in which case I could understand the revisionism.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Sorry Ghostmonjo, i am not a revisionist.

Seriously, you should come of your high horse and stop your arrogance and hubris in my direction because it does not suit you at all.....

Your constant effort to make any discussion personal (in multiple threads) is not what this forum is all about. If you have issues, deal with them in stead of trying to lauch personal attacks in my direction which will fail and fail again since i refuse to play your game.

M.VIB.M.

BACK ON TOPIC ! this discussion was about the Aspis.....

[joeandmich]

Yeah guys like what are your thoughts about the piture I posted of the Spartan with the kopis? Would you guys say that his shield hardware is accurate?

[Theron_of _Sikyon]

From what I gather the handle should not be part of the rope but would have been attatched right there. Something stiffer such as leather I think. I also would make the arm piece tighter. There should not be that much play. Are you asking about the entire shield or just the rope?

Edward

[D B Campbell]

... the piture I posted of the Spartan with the kopis?

Ooh, Spartan ... kopis ... no, no, no. :wink:

[joeandmich]

From what I gather the handle should not be part of the rope but would have been attatched right there. Something stiffer such as leather I think. I also would make the arm piece tighter. There should not be that much play. Are you asking about the entire shield or just the rope?

Edward

Since I am making my own DIY aspis I would like an opinion on every aspect.

[hoplite14gr]

Most art depictions show a separte antilave.
The depictions that show a hoplite holding only a rope -at least those that i am aware of- are too damaged and open to much interpretation.
That means that most likely the rope was was for carrying the shield.
From personal experience (most of our club members agree too)the shieled is more
manageable with a separate "antilave" - specially one made of solid material

Do not limit your selves to hard fiber natural rope either.
In Crete the sheepherders still make excellent rope from sheep wool that is strong and smooth and makes carrying of heavy objects comfortable

hope I helped

Kind regards

[richard robinson]

My Aspis has not a seperate Antilabe and i am sure I have confesed this on RAT before. It does not bother my gripping noticeably. I see the rope all around as a potential means of carrying it between battles as well as a back up handle (should the seperata handle break?) and the thesis that Stephanos is trying to remeber (I am guessing) was that put forward ages ago that the rope served as a stiffener or torsion tool to assist the aspis to maintain its integrity- similar to ropes used in some wooden hulls the original idea ran- it is on rat somewhere. It was a hoopy idea that holds some water....
regards
richard

[Theron_of _Sikyon]

I believe that the shield itself should be deeper with enough of a ledge that it can rest on the shoulder if need be.

Edward

[D B Campbell]

I believe that the shield itself should be deeper with enough of a ledge that it can rest on the shoulder if need be.

If you haven't seen it, you might be interested in Henry Blyth's sketch of the Bomarzo shield remains, particularly the fragment preserving the angle of the rim. (The scale is in centimetres.)
[attachment=1668]Bomarzo_shield.jpg[/attachment]

[Sean Manning]

Wow, thicker at the rim than the center ... that is an odd design. There is a good but very expensive summary of the evidence on Greek shields by Krenz in New Perspectives on Ancient Warfare (Brill, 2010; ISBN 9789004185982). Among other things he makes the argument that reenactors have been making for years that Greek kit couldn't have possibly weighed as much as some scholars have guessed.

Some years ago Allen Pittman suggested that the rope around an aspis was to let each fighter grab the shield to his right with his left hand. I'm pretty skeptical; among other things, in his videos he can't do it without using his spear hand to move the rope to where the shield hand can grab it.

[joeandmich]

It would create a sturdier shield wall though.