Imperial Gallic D, Slovenia

[Marcus Mummius]

Hello,

Does anyone have pictures of the Imperial Gallic D helmet found in a tomb at Idria pri Baci, Verdun (Novo Mesto) in Slovenia?

The helmet database tells me that info was published in the following works:

1. Gänsicke, S.: "Restaurierung eines in situ geborgenen römischen Eisenhelmes". Arbeitsblätter für Restauratoren (Arb.bl. Restaur.) ISSN 0066-5738 1988 242-252
2. Bottini, A.et al. (1988), "Antike Helme, Sammlung Lipperheide und andere Bestände des Antikmuseums Berlin", (Römisch-Germanisches Zentralmuseum, Mainz ), p.337

Does anyone has access to these? I'd love to see pictures of this helmet.

Thanks in advance!

[Tim Edwards]

It's this one, I think:

[attachment=0:2fv7sh1r]<!-- ia0 PIC 4.jpg<!-- ia0 [/attachment:2fv7sh1r]

[jho]

Salvete!

Jef, I have sent you an email.

Tim,

your helmet is (Idrija) Idria pri Baci, Verdun (Novo Mesto), Slovenia, Tomb 1 (Waurick, G., 1986: Berichte des RGZM, Verdun, Grab 1, Jahrbuch RGZM 33, 1986, 897 Abb. 63). I believe the helmet Jef is referring to (Idrija) Idria pri Baci, Verdun (Novo Mesto), Slovenia, Tomb 41.

[Tim Edwards]

I had assumed there was only one D from Verdun! - This gets better.

What drew my attention to this find in the first place is that these burials have other items of an individual soldier's panopoly, giving a rare insight into what one soldier might have owned, rather than cobbling together mismatched bits from across Europe as per standard reconstructions.

What date are these burials btw? (I suspect they are Augustan, despite the development of the helms.)

Note also that there is a line drawing of some of the Idria finds in the widely available Weapons of the Romans by M Feugere.

[jho]

Tim,

Sorry for the late response, I difficulties re-joining RAT. I believe there are three Imperial Gallic helmets from this location, dating is as follows:

(Idrija) Idria pri Baci, Verdun (Novo Mesto), Slovenia, Tomb 1 is dated 0-50 AD based on fibulae. The grave contained a gladius and a conical umbo which may hint at an auxiliary infantry soldier.

(Idrija) Idria pri Baci, Verdun (Novo Mesto), Slovenia, Tomb 41 is dated to the Augustan period based on a fibula. The grave also contained a gladius and a conical umbo which may hint at an auxiliary infantry soldier.

(Idrija) Idria pri Baci, Verdun (Novo Mesto), Slovenia, Tomb 17 is dated to the last quarter BC based on the grave goods and also included a gladius as well as buckets and tools.

[Peroni]

The helmet from Tomb 17 is in the Helmet Database and classified by Robinson as Type 'E'
http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/o...Itemid,96/

Picture from Robinson...

[arminius]

As far as I know are these tombs believed to contain the remains of former Noric auxiliaries.

[arminius]

I think this is one of them:

[Peroni]

Yes, that's one of them. Not sure if is the original or the copy at Mainz?

[arminius]

My guess is that it is the copy from Mainz!

[Joze Noriker]

Hi - i didn't know this thread and i am new in the forum. Well, i have some fotos from the museum Novo Mesto (i made them in summer 2008) and i wrote in many threads here, that i am working on the reco of the grave Verdun 37 - here:





and links:
http://s1084.photobucket.com/albums/j409...TO2387.jpg

http://s1084.photobucket.com/albums/j409...TO2391.jpg

http://s1084.photobucket.com/albums/j409...TO2390.jpg

http://s1084.photobucket.com/albums/j409...TO2388.jpg


http://s1084.photobucket.com/albums/j409...TO2385.jpg

and at the end my great foto - i mean my grave Verdun 37 of my reco: on the foto above




Here is text of dr. Dragan Bozic: the graves are on the p. 199/200 (11-12/25)by the title "Mokronog IIIb"

http://av.zrc-sazu.si/pdf/50/AV_50_Bozic.pdf

PS: i don't understand, why you have posted allways "Idria/Verdun" the Verdun pri Stopicah is in different geograph. area - in south part of Slovenia; Idria is central-west.
Joze

[Joze Noriker]

Here is the orig. description from the Museum Novo mesto to the items in grave Verdun, nr. 1:



The links of this fotos i posted here 8 months ago. See on the fotos of the Nr.: Novo mesto 2389; Novo mesto 2388.
All graves are plain graves, not burned graves.
Watch on the roman character of the graves and on the bented iron sword(s) in celtic tradition.

Jens wrote: """ (Idrija) Idria pri Baci, Verdun (Novo Mesto), Slovenia, Tomb 1 is dated 0-50 AD based on fibulae. The grave contained a gladius and a conical umbo which may hint at an auxiliary infantry soldier. """ (etc)

Please, be careful: the Idrija pri Baci is different cemetery as the Verdun (=Verdun pri Stopicah). The items from Idrija pri Baci are in different museums, most of them in Ljubljana; the items from cemetery Verdun are in vitrinas on my fotos and they are all from the museum in Novo mesto.
The tomb 1 description is here on the foto; the fotos of this description i posted ab. 8 months ago here.
Well, after 8 months i changed again my opinion, wich helmet i shall to use for my impression of the grave Verdun nr. 37.
I posted here in paralelle thread that i shall use the Gallic A.
after this posting i changed my opinion and i was thinking, the roman variante of helmet typus "Novo mesto" made of bronze will be good. It cames from another cemetery: Strmec near Bela cerkev = Mihovo area. It is the helmet from Mihovo, because in that grave was the roman gladius. Actualy it goes both typus of helmets: the bronze-variante of typus Novo mesto and Imperial A aswell. The Gallic D is to late for the older grave in Verdun, it is "my" wanted grave nr. 37, it is dated in Augusteian time ab. 20-0 timeframe.
The Gallic D is to late variante for this timeframe but the Gallic A goes.
I will order it next year in Germany, made by indivudual ordering "for my head" and the sword, too. I am working now at the moment on new Ha D3 impression for our museums presentation in NMS museum Ljubljana on the 16th of June; i don't have so much money for ordering all this staff and i must to wait some months for working on my classical late latene impressions....

Joze