Greg -- At this point the shoulder yoke is only attached by the linen interior so it doesn't sit as tightly as it will eventually do. Now the yoke poses almost no restriction at all, irrespective of movement.
When I fasten it through the leather there shouldn't be any problems either as it will be attached in the middle so the shoulder flaps can move freely when pushed back.
I do however plan to leave pockets in parts of the yoke as well as in the chest-piece to try out the notion that t&Y corselets could be augmented with thin metal plates, similar to medieval coats of plates. That should make movements a bit more restricted. I gather that Giannis might not be thrilled about this :-) but it is just so I can try out what has become a pet theory for me. But since I won't permanently attach the plates I could just remove them if it prove too restrictive or inaccurate.
Quote:I gather that Giannis might not be thrilled about this
Contrary, i rather prefer it when others try the theories i don't believe in.
By the way, i spoke with a leading archaeologist who is responsible for the weapons and armour found in macedonian and is about to publish all the weapons and armour in Vergina, and he told me that there WERE traces of fabric on the outer side of the iron cuirass!
We also know that there have been traces of leather on the inside and small parts of the leather pteryges survived,52 in number. The number we know because of the gold plates that covered the bottom edges of the pteryges.
Seriously,creating a way of inserting temporarily metal plates is a good idea and i eagerly wait for your experiences.
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
Wow, those are some exciting news! Looking forward to hear more about those findings when they get published.
A rant related to this: My main problem right now is sourcing metal. I would prefer tin-bronze (about 10% tin and 90% copper) but to get a good price I need to buy quite a lot (a roll of 8 times 0,3 metres). And unfortunately I am unable to find any plates wider than 30cm so it would be hard to use the excess metal to make greaves or other larger items.
An alternative would be tinned steel (which is another pet theory that I like to try out) but tin is so expensive that it couldn't end up cheaper then bronze. I could go with galvanized steel but it just isn't the same. For the plate inserts I could just use painted steel but bronze or tinned steel would be cooler. I guess I could use untreated steel for the plates and scales but the maintenance might be too much (I do live in a dry climate so its ok though).
The most realistic option is brass. It looks ok but its just not bronze. And also, I have access to choose between silicon and tin bronze to cast a thicker plate or bowl to hammer into a helmet so if I go with brass for the body the colours will clash. If I cheat and use painted steel for the helmet however, then brass would be ok. And plus, making the helmet would be more straightforward.
If anyone have any suggestion for which option to go with I'm all ears!
This project has ground to a halt since I really can't buy the large quantity of tin bronze sheet, that I must purchase in order to get a decent price (see my earlier rant).
To overcome the inertia I have decided to at least restart by doing the invisible metal parts in steel. Well, actually, these pictures detail a steel insert for the chest area that I intend to shape so that the bottom part gets turned up to become a visible rim. I will turn it up half way and then emboss it with some pattern, and then turn it the full 180 degress (see the attached sketch). I will fasten it temporarily with pins.
In case I really don't like the idea of visible steel I can always cut it off later and only keep the hidden steel plate and make a new rim in bronze. But its going to be good to at least see if steel could look acceptable in case I go with it for scales as well. We do know that contemporary Persians, Skythians and/or Thracians could use iron/steel scales in their tube and yoke thorakes so it should be a possibility for Greeks.
Threadomancy! Eight years later and I am finally returning to this project. After becoming a metal artist I now have plenty of metal and experience working metal and leather. Have stripped the leather of the modern paint and dyed it a reddish dark brown. The idea of using linen under scales has been scrapped and I am now going with leather entirely. Complemented with metal reinforcements.
As the images show I have double layers of leather (around 7mm) over the shoulders, top chest piece, and pteruges. The midsection which will be completely covered by scales is one layer (3-4mm). Shoulders and top chest piece will have borders and decorations in bronze.
Based on finds from cultures near Greece I have decided to go with much smaller scales than I had initially planned. I now believe that the size of scales in vase depictions are even more exaggerated than I used to think. I will likely make most scales in iron (mild steel) as so many finds are iron or contains both scales of iron and copper alloy. But again, other decoration and fittings will be bronze.
Reminder: Inspired by depictions from around 520-480 bc.
It looks great so far!
I should have been a little more strategic with my leather thickness like you were. I used the same thickness throughout, under the scales and everything, so it got quite heavy and inflexible.
Looking forward to seeing the result!
(04-27-2021, 05:43 PM)Zephyrides Wrote: It looks great so far!
I should have been a little more strategic with my leather thickness like you were. I used the same thickness throughout, under the scales and everything, so it got quite heavy and inflexible.
Looking forward to seeing the result!
Cheers! Yes I am happy about the leather thickness as it is stiff enough to give a good outline but flexible enough to avoid being overly bulky.
08-18-2021, 02:49 PM (This post was last modified: 08-18-2021, 03:02 PM by Daniel S..)
(07-21-2021, 11:41 AM)czaczaja Wrote: Amazing to see you get back to it! Im currently in the process of drawing out my patterns and will follow your thread with excitement!
Looking forward to seeing what you'll end up making!
Here is the upper part of the t&y as well as some bronze scales that will form the two horizontal bands (aroun d waist and around pectoral area).
And here it is with the pteruges tacked on. They will be afixed more securely with the bronze scale band around the waist using lacing. Shared this to the facebook group during spring but forgot to post it here as well. Getting back to a workshop in a few weeks so will hopefully make some headway in punching holes in the scales. As well as making the iron scales that will cover most of the t&y.
![[Image: -side-1.gif]](http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118/kadoglou_gr/-side-1.gif)
