How To.. wear the Pugio and Gladius (belts, fasteners)

[PhilusEstilius]

It has been mentioned the Chichester plates were small only about 30mm long and very narrow, however a couple of examples I have found are also very narrow in the region of 18 to 20mm wide they are however military beltplates.

[M. Demetrius]

How do we know plated frogs came in pairs?

Well, mated frogs come in pairs, don't they? QED

[PhilusEstilius]

Nice one David!!

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Brian,

Have you references/ drawings/ pictures of that belt set?

Thanx

[Peroni]

Ah! I see what you mean by 'plated frogs' now Jim, you meant frogs attached to a hinge plate as opposed to silver or tin plated! :roll:

[caiusbeerquitius]

In a clear archaeological context these fasteners seem to come in pairs, anyway. Example:Idrija pri Baci Grave 17, in the Posocje area in Slovenia, early imperial soldier´s weapon grave.
Gustin, M, Posocije in der jüngeren Eisenzeit. Catalogi et monographiae 27, Ljubljana, 1991.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

What helmet is that? A Gallic G?

[PhilusEstilius]

Cesar I'm sorry I can't help you with pics' of those plates at this time however Peroni did help me with them at one time maybe he can help us both again. If you go to page 1 of this dicussion and open the link there by Tim Edwards and follow that down you will come to buckle plates shown by Peroni. These are 3 that came from Caerleon and the one at the bottom of the picture is exactly like the one I have, and mine came from here in the north of England where I found it. There was also another exactly like that found at Staxton east Yorkshire, they are all cast so could they have come from the same mold I wonder.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yeah! I would love a belt with those plate Brian! :wink:

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Well,

In the exemple posted by Caius Tarquitius, is clear the fastener are two. There are very little, and at the burial there are a cloack fastener, a large fibula, plus one more little. The belt buckle is very simple and lacks belt plates.

As i have said in another part of the post, i think those kind of fastener could be have used in only leather belts, without plates.

By the way, I think those kind of pieces are multifuncional.

[PhilusEstilius]

In the example shown by Christian there are two button loop fasteners but has any claim been made by the excavators that they had anything to do with sword suspession. The sword we see there appears to look very much like a possible Caesarian type or can it be a cavalry Spatha, then of course the helmet does look to be of a Gallic type.

[caiusbeerquitius]

Byron, as far as I can see the helmet had no eyebrows. The grave is dated Augustan-Claudian.

[caiusbeerquitius]

Or, to argue from the other side: Why would one wear a button-loop fastener to close one´s cloak if there are fibulae around? Fibulae findings are abundant, and apparently, judging from the ever-changing styles and fashions for fibulae, THE thing to show how en vogue one was
Cloaks as such were a quite expensive affair. Furthermore we don´t really know of any other button-use in combination with Roman clothing.
I think the cloak-variant is much more improbable than the belt-variant.

Especially the button-loop fasteners displaying an emperor´s portrait or the like make much more sense in combination with sword scabbards and belts, at least iconographically. And iconogrpahy is something the Romans were quite aware of / sensitive for, probably much more than we are today.

[Tarbicus]

Why is it so inexplicable that there could have been belts without lots of elaborate plates, when these fasteners were a truly cheap and practical alternative to hinged frogs? Vanity and a bit too much pride in the bling perhaps?

How do we know that all military belts must have been fully plated? Christian's statement and example that the fasteners often come in pairs completely blows the single Miks example being used as proof that they could only hold one item, or only be used to fasten clothing, out of the water, surely?

[Tarbicus]

Ah! I see what you mean by 'plated frogs' now Jim, you meant frogs attached to a hinge plate as opposed to silver or tin plated! :roll:

That would be right, Sir.