Cavalry helmet in Budapest

[Dan Diffendale]

I came across these pictures of a helmet in Budapest described as a cavalry sports helmet... does anyone know of non-gladiatorial parallels for that kind of metal crest? Maybe there are lots of them, but it's not my area of expertise...
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(from this page)

[Theodosius the Great]

Do you mean that eagle-headed crest ?

There's a picture of one posted by Nathan Ross here at the old RAT site :

[url:zin7118z]http://p200.ezboard.com/fromanarmytalkfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=1305.topic&start=21&stop=33[/url]

Here's another helmet that comes to mind :

[L. Aufidius Pantera]

Hi Dan,

have a look at my avatar! :wink:

That kind of crest comes up fairly regularly in cavalry helmets (parade?) of the third century - most famous one probably from Theilenhofen in Germany (i.e. Theodosius' pic, I think), though until now I hadn't seen one with a mask still attached! Might one ask where in Budapest you found it?

There should be more examples in Egg & Waurick (1990), Antike Helme, published at the Roemisch Germanische Zentralmuseum, Mainz

(I think the spelling is OK this time...)

Lucius

[Dan Diffendale]

Thanks! Not a unique type, I see...
The info-card says it's from Szony (Brigetio) in Pannonia, but it's in the Hungarian National Museum in Budapest.

[marsvigilia]

I always wonder how anyone with those little eye holes could ride a horse in a straight line much less fight in a battle.

[Caballo]

"I always wonder how anyone with those little eye holes could ride a horse in a straight line much less fight in a battle. "
It all depends on how close the mask is to the eyes. I've tested this out with a couple of reconstructions, and if the mask is pretty flush to the face, you lose very little vision (mainly peripheral). If (like the Deepeeka copy of the Ribchester :roll: ) the mask is placed a distance away from the face, its a nightmare!
A flush fitting mask however does need padding however- particularly on the nose and upper lip. Britannia use a copy of the Levy full face mask by Deepeeka in gladiatorial combat (and they don't hold back!), and they have stuck thick sticking plaster on teh nose and upper lip of their mask. More authentically, a wool or felt "inner mask" would work well.

Cheers

Paulus

[L. Aufidius Pantera]

Heretic question here, just because I don't know any better...

Is there actually any evidence that face masks were ever used in battle? I always thought (god knows where I got it from) that they were thought to have only been used during parades...

- Lucius

[Tarbicus]

I thought one theory was that the signifers wore masks in battle, due to having their hands full with a signum and a sword when needed. It gave them added facial protection without fumbling with the above and a shield, which could remain strapped to their bodies.

Only a theory.

Cheers.

[Caballo]

There is no definitive proof that I know of that masks were worn in battle, but plenty of indicators to say that they probably were.
For example, the Genealis gravestone in Corinium museum appears to show a masked cavalryman in combat. http://www.cotswold.gov.uk/media/museum ... nialis.jpg

Other gravestones may show a mask, but it is impossible to tell (given that paint has worn off) whether a face or a face mask is depicted. Personally, I believe that masks such as the one in the Levy collection were used in battle- whilst some of the more ornate (eg Ribchester) were limited to the cavalry sports and parades.

Regards

Paul

[Uwe Bahr]

Danno,

thank You very much for posting this absolutely interesting site. Well, I did know this (female ?) mask from H. R. Robinsons 'Arms and Armour of Imperial Rome', but never saw it in combination with that crested back part (sorry for that, in Germany we say 'Hinterhaupthelm', don't know the correct English translation). Does anybody know whether these parts belong together?

Also the other pictures are phantastic: (for me) new photos about the Budapest late Roman helmet, very impressing decorations of a travel car and of a tripod stand. The archaeological museum is surely worth a visit, if I would ever come to Budapest. :?

Greets - Uwe

[Opifex]

Thanks! Not a unique type, I see...
The info-card says it's from Szony (Brigetio) in Pannonia, but it's in the Hungarian National Museum in Budapest.

Upsss..
I should go and take some pictures for you :wink:

[Caballo]

"I should go and take some pictures for you "

And maybe some pictures of the Aquincum helmet as well? Very few pictures exist in West European publications.

Please??

[Aluscladiusmaximus]

And maybe some pictures of the Aquincum helmet as well? Very few pictures exist in West European publications.

When I saw the Aquincum helmet I thought it was a deepca copy. Only when I read the card did I realise it was a genuine original. Unfortunately you are not allowed to take pictures inside the Aquincum museum building. This is a pity as there were so many very interesting thing there. I bought the guide book as it had some good illustrations but I am not sure where it is at the moment. I took lots of pictures in the excavations around the museum.

Aulus Cladius Maximus[/quote]

[Tarbicus]

Unfortunately you are not allowed to take pictures inside the Aquincum museum building.

[url:1mgzdjpw]https://sslrelay.com/www.active-spy-shop.co.uk/sess/utn;jsessionid=154284aabee059a/shopdata/index.shopscript[/url]

History is not copyrighted. :wink:

[Uwe Bahr]

Typical tarbical :lol: :lol: :lol: