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Well, not quite on the 50th page. It was not meant to be superior at all but a comment on the fact that, after almost 50 pages of discussion, Boudicca is reduced to totty.
As one of the few lady members of RAT I just thought I should point it out. I don't see anyone referring to Mithradates, Arminius or any of the other significant historical figures who gave Rome a good run for their money (as well as a good beating) being referred to as stud muffins.
Just sayin'.
(And it was said tongue in cheek, as I think Kevin and John realise).
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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Good points, Vindex.. As a regular listener to Womens' Hour and having an independently minded wife, I believe the same. I wasn't trying to score points. But B is my heroine, wherever she appears. I also think that Alex, etc was a bit 'off topic', however much she is admired.
Davidus
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it was only the II doing the Totty bit, and where were they on the day eh? but B as a cultural icon is a viable line for the discussion as it's all a bit quiet at the moment. everyone ascribes whatever they want onto the entity which we really no nothing about other than;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LhT7rCC6O8
Don't dis' this miss :x
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Quote:an oft missed one is Lawless
Is that Manda Scott at 3.34 or so?
Does anyone recall whether she gave a location for the battle in her 'Boudica' novels?
After Moi mentioned Anya Seton I was wondering how many other fictional portrayals of the battle there have been, and whether they suggest locations for it. Shipway, of course, put it somewhere between Silchester and Staines (probably around Bagshot Heath - I think Mike Bishop's prohibition on mentioning him must have lapsed after 4+ years...). I don't think the recent novels by Douglas Jackson and Henry Venmore-Rowland give any hints of the location though. Have there been others?
Nathan Ross
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yes on Manda Scott, name checked at 4:30 here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h50s2FMSIY8
not sure about her battle location or others, I'm waiting to see how Scarrow plays it having already introduced the Tot... :eek: ......Queen Boudicca a couple of times.
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Quote: but B as a cultural icon is a viable line for the discussion as it's all a bit quiet at the moment. ..Don't dis' this miss :x
I thought I'd done rather a good job at restarting the discussion with mention of Anya Seton's book. :whistle:
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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rather more grown up reportage;
http://www.thecolchesterarchaeologist.co.uk/?p=13560
Good to know we are cutting down on the "silly" accusations
*Edited to avoid the suggestion that Francis J. Haverfield (Professor of Ancient History, Oxford), R.G. Collingwood (Professor of Metaphysical Philosophy, Oxford), Graham Webster and Donald R. Dudley might have been in any way 'silly' in their hypotheses!
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Just when I was starting to enjoy this thread......thanks John.....
And @ Moi, exactly what is wrong with Boudica being "totty". Admittedly, not top totty, but surely better remembered as such rather than the "minger" who nearly collapsed Roman rule in Britannia.
Kevin
Kevin
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survey time then, minger, totty or feminist trope..... who said RAT wasn't academic enough?
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The official write up of the Warwick Uni conference is currently doing the rounds in draft form with a view to publishing through the Battlefields Trust, I'll post link when it's in the public domain.
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Always assuming that the site is around Watling Street, or to the East of it!
But I have read the Conference papers and look forward to hearing the conclusions.
Davidus
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And another thing!
Just been in Campania for a week and took Colin Wells book 'The Roman Empire' for a read. How relaxing is that?
However, in comparing oral tradition, with the literary record (P.25)
re: Tacitus. ''If we have to treat T's account of events with caution, it is not because he gets his facts wrong, but because of the interpretation he puts on them and the things he leaves out.''
And regarding Cassio Dio: '' ..... and his lengthly speeches in particular tend to be pure invention, often wholly anachronistic''.
Davidus
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the paper includes Steves nomination of Ogbourne St George with reference to Fuentes so the West does get a covered, the "credible" nominations do tend to cluster in the Midlands though, obvious around the core of CS ;-)
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Quote:"...we have to treat T's account of events with caution... because of the interpretation he puts on them..."
As a minor note to this, which I've mentioned briefly before, I recently came across a line in Livy which seemed rather familiar.
At the battle of Beneventum, Tiberius Gracchus assembles his army "in a clear and open field, where without any fear of ambush the battle could be fought with pure courage." (24.14): puro ac patenti campo, ubi sine ullo insidiarum metu vera virtute geri res posset.
Compare this to our much-discussed site description in Tacitus: "an open plain extended without any danger from ambuscades." (Annals 14.30): apertam planitiem esse, sine metu insidiarum.
The similar wording, and more similar sentiment, might just be coincidence, or a knowing wink to the reader. But, bearing in mind the Roman love for the study and quotation of the past, it raises the uncomfortable possibility that Tacitus's description of the battlefield is just a generic assembly of ideal battle situations culled from history, a sort of idealised 'place of arms' to showcase Paulinus's tactical genius... In which case all our attempts to match it to a real location are completely pointless! :dizzy:
Nathan Ross
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On the other hand, any general worth his salt would be expected to take precautions against being attacked in the rear, so the use of similar wording in relation to different battles need not come as a surprise. What may differentiate Tacitus' account of this battle from the descriptions of other encounters by him and other historians is that, in this case, he has the possible advantage of a first-hand account from his father-in-law, Agricola.
Michael King Macdona
And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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