VEMBRACES

[FAVENTIANVS]

Why some re-enactors(not archers)are wearing leather vembraces at the wrists?

Sorry, wrong place, can you move it to re-enactment and reconstruction please?

[M. Demetrius]

Topic moved.

I don't know if we have any idea why the movie industry decided that Romans should wear vambraces. As far as people around here know, there is no sculptural or artistic evidence that Romans ever did, nor Greeks, for that matter. I guess some people think they look good, so they wear them.

[pmel018]

And a godsend on the re-enactment battlefield
Phil

[Alanus]

Yes, but if you're an archer you only need one (on the bow hand). If you place your stance correctly, your bowstring hardly ever hits it. But if you're shooting from a horse, a vambrace is a godsend. :wink:

In the movies, even emperors wear them.
Why do they need vambraces? Is it something to do with orgies? :roll:

[pmel018]

In the movies, even emperors wear them.
Why do they need vambraces? Is it something to do with orgies? :roll:

Never did me much good, maybe I had the wrong sort :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Alanus]

You need the plastic reusable ones. :wink:

[M. Demetrius]

Never did me much good, maybe I had the wrong sort

Or maybe you put them in the wrong place? Of course, I wouldn't know.... hock: :lol:

[pmel018]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Gaius Colletti]

I don't see enough "bracers" on reenactors, its like none of you have them but Hollywood clearly has them all over. What gives??? (jk)

[Yurko]

OK, I'll join in...

I think as a forum group we could submit a rather large order with MRL. They have some brilliant examples of bracers over there. BTW, if any of you, like me, are in need of a quick impression "on the fly", might I suggest the latest Romantic fashions from their, "The Eagle" line. Going to be quite a kisser this Summer. Look for it on the runways soon!

Crackingly good stuff...

[Forty-One]

So where did they come from, then? Were they a renaissance military fashion that inveigled itself into their artistic reconstructions of Roman warriors? Some of the sculptures of late republican-era gladiators have their wrists bound up like Roman boxers. I wonder if that put ideas in some modern artist's head.

[Nathan Ross]

So where did they come from, then?

It's an interesting question. A quick look back at the development of popular perceptions of Roman soldiers in art and cinema might hold a clue.

Back in 1867, Alma-Tadema's Praetorians need no wrist adornment:



Bracelets start appearing in the films of the 1920s - here's Ben Hur from 1925:



But the man is an officer, and the bracelets are gold, intended to show his rank.

Bracer-mania really gets going in the 50s, but even then it's only officer-types who wear them - the regular troops are still bare-wristed. Here's Quo Vadis, 1952 version:

[img size=624 x 491]http://image.toutlecine.com/photos/q/u/o/quo-vadis-1951-11-g.jpg[/img]

...but bracers - the chunkier the better - show that a man is an officer. In this case a tribune:

[img size=426 x 569]http://www.moviemail-online.co.uk/images/large/Quo-vadis-21070_7.jpg[/img]

The fashions soon spread to the lower ranks, and by 1964 (The Fall of the Roman Empire), everybody was wearing them:



Nowadays, they're pretty much essential, although the fancier ones still seem to say 'officer':



...and in colder climates they can feature all sorts of added extras:

[img size=680 x 451]http://www.heyuguys.co.uk/images/Centurion2.jpg[/img]

:wink:

[Forty-One]

Your google-fu is strong!

Alma-Tadema tended to follow Roman sculpture quite closely. His praetorians seem to be faithfully copied off the Louvre relief.

The next two examples show chunky officer's bracelets similar to the ones Marcus Caelius is shown wearing on his cenotaph. I wonder if that was the original source, then.

It's only after that that it all seems to go haywire. :roll:

[Robert Vermaat]

So where did they come from, then?

It's an interesting question. A quick look back at the development of popular perceptions of Roman soldiers in art and cinema might hold a clue.

The wrist-fashion may be a pain, but at least the 'skirts' became longer..

[A_Volpe]

The infamous Red Cape shows up now and then, too. (Edna Mode from "The Incredibles": "No Capes!!")

The bracers show up because Hollywood as we all know, can't come up with an original idea to save it's life (yet will gladly re-write history in some dramatic/idiotic revision when the actual history is chock-full of craziness that wrote itself as if for Hollywood to just copy verbatim to begin with!)

I also tend to think now that the "look" of wearing bracers just seems to be a visual thing, it looks more like they are wearing armor, more martial/military looking, than bare arms....Which, is kinda silly because the practical approach would have armor over the elbows and biceps, as well. (But then, when have we seen a Manica show up in movies/TV?...Not yet)...It's the same effect as what's called "Greeblies", a good example is Star Wars, the vehicles and ships were designed by Lucas to look "used and abused" and slapped together, but also with all sorts of odd shapes and contours for the cameras to better pick out on blue-screen work, yet in the "real world" would hardly be aerodynamic or "practical".


But I think it's also this (misguided) notion that some kind of wrist & hand padding is needed for carrying the Scutum. Some reconstructions (ie early generation Deepeeka shields) tended to have the inside "framework" end right at the hold cut for the handle, making it easy for one to crush their wrist against it.

(I know my Republic scutum from Deepeeka has that "keyhole" handle-hole cut in it, and the grip is far enough "inside" the hole that when holding it, my wrist gets pressed against the inside edge of the hole, and it is very uncomfortable...But I know I need to modify that whole thing in there to make it work better for me)

That being said, I think it comes down to "engineering" the construction of the shield and handle to help alleviate that pain, but also that the reenactor ought to learn to hold the shield differently to prevent that pain from happening, thus not relying on wearing a bracer. But that is of course, my own opinion.

I do believe we might be 'missing' something in how the handles and such were constructed, such as a leather lining on the inside edge (which I have on my shield, I'm sure others have used things like sheepskin) or that we're missing something in how the shields are to be held in the hand.

But who knows what we'll dig up anytime in the future.