leather cuirass

[Iosephus]

I do oil paintings and when I portray an iron object in the outdoors, it usually shows that reflection of its surroundings on its surface.

And would you paint reflection marks on the surface of movable 3D objects (lika statues and sarcophagi) as well?

Sorry, but for me it doesn't sound like a good idea.

[Magnus]

I'm not sure I agree with you Doc. Your idea of what is a common artistic fundamental may have been different 2000 years ago. You're right, we don't know what they were trying to portray, however to me it seems much more plausible to show what kind of material the armour is made from, versus any artistic technique of showing reflections. Besides, brass and bronze doesn't relfect colour as well as polished iron or silver.

[Tarbicus]

I'm not sure I agree with you Doc. Your idea of what is a common artistic fundamental may have been different 2000 years ago. You're right, we don't know what they were trying to portray, however to me it seems much more plausible to show what kind of material the armour is made from, versus any artistic technique of showing reflections. Besides, brass and bronze doesn't relfect colour as well as polished iron or silver.

So why blue or green? Why not grey? They had the pigments to do so.

[Dan Howard]

Does it really matter? The only relevant point is whether it is leather or not. Is there any sensible argument one can make to support the claim that the blue or green coloured armour is made of leather?

[Magnus]

So why blue or green? Why not grey? They had the pigments to do so.

I have no idea, and neither does anyone else...just speculation!

[caiusbeerquitius]

Is there any sensible argument one can make to support the claim that the blue or green coloured armour is made of leather?

No.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Does it really matter? The only relevant point is whether it is leather or not. Is there any sensible argument one can make to support the claim that the blue or green coloured armour is made of leather?

They dyed it? Pure speculation of course!

[Dan Howard]

Does it really matter? The only relevant point is whether it is leather or not. Is there any sensible argument one can make to support the claim that the blue or green coloured armour is made of leather?

They dyed it? Pure speculation of course!

Speculation isn't a sensible argument. Are there any surviving examples of Roman leather, military or otherwise, that have been dyed these colours?

[Matt Lukes]

I wonder if sufficient analysis has ever been conducted to tell if leather objects were dyed... but indeed 'it's not impossible' is not a good argument, nor is diluting the question with innumerable possibilities to add things not obviously related to one's 'evidence' for something existing.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

That was not an argument. But how else would leather, if it was leather, get to be any colour other than brown?

[Dan Howard]

That was not an argument. But how else would leather, if it was leather, get to be any colour other than brown?

Do you have any evidence that Roman leather WAS any colour other than brown?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Do you? All I am saying is, which isn't a difficult train of thought even for me to follow is....

A if it is leather (which I am not an adherant of the leather armour idea, btw) and
B if it is coloured leather

then it would have to be dyed,

simple, no debate on it. leather is brown, and to be coloured needs to be dyed. Even Roman leather. :?

But then that was perhaps not the question you asked was it! :roll:

[Dan Howard]

Do you?

No. If there is no evidence of Romans dying their leather then it is not reasonable to claim that the coloured armours in various illustrations are made of leather. Which eliminates this entire body of evidence supporting D'Amato's claim for Roman leather armour.

[Theodosius the Great]

Do you?

No. If there is no evidence of Romans dying their leather then it is not reasonable to claim that the coloured armours in various illustrations are made of leather. Which eliminates this entire body of evidence supporting D'Amato's claim for Roman leather armour.

Yes, there is literary, artistic, and maybe even archaeological evidence for the Romans dyeing their leather.
Senatorial boots (calceii) are said to have been distinguished by their red color while equestrians wore black versions.
Roman baldrics that were recovered in Danish bogs may have been dyed but I don't know for certain since photos tend to be
always published in black and white ( :x



Unfortunately, color alone doesn't seem to be much, if any, help in determining what material is being depicted in Roman art.

~Theo

[Magnus]

While that's true...at this point it is still impossible to state that leather was used as officer's musculata, dyed, painted or hollywood brown. 8)