Evidence for Rome establishing relations/ contact with China

[Quintius Lucius Cato]

Greetings.

I haven't posted in ages ...but trust me I browse often

Well we were having a discussion in one of my classes yesterday, studying Modern China and the topic went slightly off topic to Ancient China. Anyway we talked about the possibility about the Roman Empire venturing as far as China.

I'm sure I’ve read something briefly in the past about approximately in the time of Marcus Aurelius Rome established some form of diplomatic relationship with China although I’m not sure.

I'm wondering if anyone can direct me to some information considering I’ve been unable to find any myself.



Cheers
Cato

[Jona Lendering]

It's mentioned in the Hou Han Shu: go here.

[Quintius Lucius Cato]

Thanks, only got around to viewing this today

[D B Campbell]

I'm wondering if anyone can direct me to some information considering I’ve been unable to find any myself.

"A Chinese puzzle for the Romans", Historia 38 (1989) 371-376

[AlexandrosMaximus]

wow it seems i just posted the same thing.

[Theodosius the Great]

I also wonder if any Chinese merchants ever settled within the Roman Empire. I imagine many would have been adventuristic enough to have left their homeland in search of a prosperous life abroad. Just look at today and see that in every country anyone can buy himself some Chinese food from a Chinese-owned restaurant.


~Theo

[Drungarios]

Flipping through my collection of journal articles I've found a few you might be interested in:

"A Roman Influence Upon Chinese Painting" Classical Philology 38, (1943) 13-19

"An Ancient Military Contact between Romans and Chinese" The American Journal of Philology 62, (1941) 322-330

"A Roman City in Ancient China" Greece & Rome 4, (1957) 139-148

"The Silk Trade between China and the Roman Empire at Its Height, 'Circa' AD 90-130" Greece & Rome 18, (1971) 71-80

[Tarbicus]

"An Ancient Military Contact between Romans and Chinese" The American Journal of Philology 62, (1941) 322-330

Available on JSTOR. If anyone wanted to take a look and give us the low down on the meeting, it'd be much appreciated :wink:
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-9475(1941 )62%3A3%3C322%3AAAMCBR%3E2.0.CO%3B2-3

[Drungarios]

If anyone wanted to take a look and give us the low down on the meeting, it'd be much appreciated :wink:

In the article "An Ancient Military Contact between Romans and Chinese" the author, Homer Dubs, describes a border action by the Han Chinese in Central Asia where the Chinese army was involved in rearranging client kingdoms in the first century BC.

Based on a description of a painting in which a contingent of soldiers fights in an odd formation resembling that of the legionary testudo, Dubs draws a tenuous link between these presumed foreign mercenaries and the relocated Roman captives from the battle of Carrhae. An interesting, if somewhat far-fetched, theory.

Dubs expands and elaborates on the fate of these "lost soldiers" in the article "A Roman Influence Upon Chinese Painting." If anyone would like read these, PM me and I will email the PDFs.

[Tarbicus]

Sounds like the old "Roman Chinese" story, which I think has been dis-proven by the negative results of DNA tests recently?

[Eleatic Guest]

"An Ancient Military Contact between Romans and Chinese" The American Journal of Philology 62, (1941) 322-330

"A Roman City in Ancient China" Greece & Rome 4, (1957) 139-148

No offence intended, but these are more, say, speculative works. :wink:

I found useful:

- Edwin Pulleybank: The Roman Empire as known to Han China, Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 119, No. 1 (1999), 71-79

Best starting point: Survey of Chinese sources with direct translations. Author sober and not intent of blowing up the meager evidence. Stresses point that Chinese views of Da Qin (=Roman Empire) - not unlike the Roman one on the Seres - were confused from the outset with ancient mythology about the distant West

- Wilfried Schoff: The Eastern Iron Trade of the Roman Empire, Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 35 (1915), 224-239

Makes short work with the sadly still lingering notion, based on an isolated reference in Pliny's NH, that the Romans ever obtained superior iron from China (pp. 224, 237) Points out that Seres cannot be identified with any single people, since denotation of the word fluctuated between different peoples and regions over time.

[Drungarios]

No offence intended, but these are more, say, speculative works. :wink:

Hence my statement:

An interesting, if somewhat far-fetched, theory.

[Theodosius the Great]

Yes, the old Crassus theory does seem farfetched. Commerce is the more likely medium of contact.

In 552 AD, Justinian sent two monks to the East to smuggle back some silk worm eggs so that the Empire could establish its own silk industry to get around the Persian middleman. The monks succeeded in their mission but I'm not sure if they entered Chinese territory to get the eggs. Anyone know for sure ?

~Theo

[Triarius]

Does anyone know how the Romans referred to the ancient Chinese?

[marsvigilia]

Does anyone know how the Romans referred to the ancient Chinese?

Barbarians.