Servilia

[fhaggis]

Hi

I was watching a documnetry on Caesar today, well half watching as i think most documentries are misleading but anyway, in it they said that Servilia and Caesar where lovers at 15. Surley this wasn't true and wasn't she older than he was?

Can someone also confirm how many times Xaesar was stabbed by his assasins?

Cheers

[Epictetus]

A popular rumour was that Brutus was Caesar's love child with Servilia. Since Caesar was only about 15 years older than Brutus, that would mean Caesar was about 15 when his affair with Servilia started. So they came up with this idea by simple math - logically working backwards from the initial belief that Brutus was his son.

And as for the number of wounds (emphasis mine):

When he saw that he was beset on every side by drawn daggers, he muffled his head in his robe, and at the same time drew down its lap to his feet with his left hand, in order to fall more decently, with the lower part of his body also covered. And in this wise he was stabbed with three and twenty wounds, uttering not a word, but merely a groan at the first stroke, though some have written that when Marcus Brutus rushed at him, he said in Greek, "You too, my child?"

Seutonius, 12 Caesars, Julius, 82.

[M. Demetrius]

That doesn't automatically mean there were 23 men who actually stabbed him, though. A few may have had daggers and not used them, and some may have stabbed more than once. And it may also be that there was some significance to the number 23, and Suetonius was making Caesar look larger than life, even in death. And it may be that that is a perfectly factual account of the incident.

It's always hard to know, but isn't the rule generally that the odds tip in the favor of the ancient writer, rather than what the later people think might have been?

In any case, 23 good sticks with Roman daggers would be fatal from loss of blood, unless quick, effective medical attention (like intravenous Lactated Ringer's, and whole blood) were administered.

[Epictetus]

That doesn't automatically mean there were 23 men who actually stabbed him, though. A few may have had daggers and not used them, and some may have stabbed more than once. And it may also be that there was some significance to the number 23, and Suetonius was making Caesar look larger than life, even in death. And it may be that that is a perfectly factual account of the incident.

It's always hard to know, but isn't the rule generally that the odds tip in the favor of the ancient writer, rather than what the later people think might have been?

In any case, 23 good sticks with Roman daggers would be fatal from loss of blood, unless quick, effective medical attention (like intravenous Lactated Ringer's, and whole blood) were administered.

True. Plutarch suggests that each conspirator was supposed to stab at least once "for all had to take part in the sacrifice and taste of the slaughter," but that doesn't necessarily mean they did. Seutonius said that 60 men were in on the plot, but of course some did not participate in the actual killing. Brutus Albinus, for instance, delayed Antony so he wouldn't be in the Senate house at the time.

Seutonius also says that the physician Antistius declared only one of the wounds would have been fatal by itself.

Oh - and fhaggis, yes I think Servilia was several years older than Caesar.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

You might want to add your real name in your signature, fhaggis, it's a forum rule.
It's good to talk, but even better when you know to whom you talk!

[Araujo]

Servilia was also a member of a proeminent family: she was of the Servilii and even so she was married to a Junii, the greatest republican family of ever! I do not doubt that Servilia and Caesar's love was true, but still see what did Caesar gain with that love - the support of one of the greatest, richest and most influent families ever known in Rome! Brutus loved him as his father, and Servilia and Caesar loved each other, but Servilia even loved her son more than she loved Caesar. That's the reason why she didn't denounce Brutus' conspiracy in 44 BC to Caesar.
Caesar had always lovers of proeminent roman families, and if not lovers then wives: first the rich Cossucia, which was delivered to Caesar as a wedding gift but that didn't actually marry Caesar. Then, Cornelia, who was Caesar's greatest love and daughter of the great, rich and radical consul L. Cornelius Cinna. Afterwards Pompeia, who he thought would be of Pompey's family (she actually wasn't), and then the most rich, influent and proeminent of all, Calpurnia. Servilia was the great love of Caesar, but he looked her also with political eyes, as he did to any other lover or wife.

[Titvs Statilivs Castvs]

That doesn't automatically mean there were 23 men who actually stabbed him, though. A few may have had daggers and not used them, and some may have stabbed more than once. And it may also be that there was some significance to the number 23, and Suetonius was making Caesar look larger than life, even in death. And it may be that that is a perfectly factual account of the incident.

It's always hard to know, but isn't the rule generally that the odds tip in the favor of the ancient writer, rather than what the later people think might have been?

In any case, 23 good sticks with Roman daggers would be fatal from loss of blood, unless quick, effective medical attention (like intravenous Lactated Ringer's, and whole blood) were administered.

Ever heard of the movie "The Number 23"? Watch it, and you'll never trust a 2 and a 3 together.

Is it known how many senators were in the complot?

[john m roberts]

I might add that the report of the physician Antistius to the Senate is the first recorded instance of a forensic post-mortem. Too bad he wasn't named Quintus.

[Epictetus]

Is it known how many senators were in the complot?

Seutonius says 60 in total, and I would think that the vast majority were Senators.