Arthur aka Lucius Artorius Castus

[Q Rutilius]

The author of the book I referenced above dates the Battle of Badon Hill at 493 AD. Vortigern, are you saying that Arthur dates after 493 AD? I am not familiar with this period and have a hard time keeping the timeline straight. I am not taking the authors side, I am just asking for opinons and other references I should check out. Any and all information you and all the others care to provide will be very useful to me I am sure.<br>
<br>
As for my own opinon, Arthur is an intertesting character, and there seems something there at the core of legends. A bit of Roman influence could help explain his success. <p></p><i></i>

[Nathan Ross]

The field of 'King Arthur Studies' is fascinating, and something I sometimes dip into, although the theories involved, and lack of hard evidence, make it rather head-twisting and I don't usually linger long. A lot of the debate hinges around the date of the battle of Badon - Gildas, in his 'Ruin of Britain', writes a confusing statement that the battle was either 44 years after the Saxons first landed, or 44 years ago from his time of writing, and happened in the year of his birth. Nennius then states that the battle was the twelfth of Arthur's victories. Gildas is believed to have died in 570, and the Annales Cambriae date Badon to 516 or 518, which might be correct. Others date it to 500, and others still to around 495 (then again, anything between 480 and 570 has also, at some point, been a possibility) Nobody knows for sure, but c495-518 seems usual. Then there was Camlann, at which Arthur died 'after a generation of peace' - usually dated 539, but possibly c.520 or later...<br>
<br>
Dark Ages indeed. 'Age of Arthur' by Jan/John Morris is quite decent on the whole panorama, and includes info on Marcus Cunomarus (Cynfawyr) and his son Drustanus - the 'King Mark' and 'Tristan' of the legends, quite possibly (and soon to be a 'major motion picture' - hooray!). <p></p><i></i>

[Robert Vermaat]

Well, this is a bit OT..<br>
<br>
Ok then. To put it bluntly: we cannot put a date on Arthur. However, if we look at the period in which medieval sources back-place him, it would be the early to mid-6th century.<br>
The battle of Badon, on the other hand, is historical, and it has been dated to around 500 AD. Nathan, I agree with you, apart from this battle being dated to 44 years after the landing of the Saxons. Not only is that last one a ghost-event (Which landing? Which Saxons?), but we know it is only based on Gildas, and Gildas never wrote it like that. Around his birth is one option, some years later another (based on the choice of his words). I have written a lengthy piece about it: [url=http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artsou/gildwhen.htm" target="top]"When did Gildas write?"[/url], give me your thoughts on that if you want. We can't be sure of when Gildas died, nor can we be sure of any other date around this time. Unfortunately. c495-518 seems usual, indeed.<br>
<br>
Nathan, 'Age of Arthur' by John Morris is not a book I'd recommend. Sure, I have it, read it time and again, but it is rather speculative. Best read it after you've read others first. I would put forward:<br>
Snyder, Christopher A. (1998 ) : [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0271017805/robertsarthurian" target="top]An Age of Tyrants[/url], Britain and Britons AD 400-600, (Stroud).<br>
Dark, Kenneth R. (1994): [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/071850206X/robertsarthurian/103-7384955-3759039" target="top]Civitas to Kingdom[/url], British Political Continuity 300-800, Studies in the Early History of Britain, (Leicester).<br>
Dark, Kenneth R. (2000): [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0752414518/robertsarthurian/103-7384955-3759039" target="top]Britain and the End of the Roman Empire[/url], (Tempus, Stroud).<br>
<br>
Equally challenging, not dull or conservative, but with an added 25 years of archaeological knowledge, plus far better notes and bibliographies..<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 2/10/04 8:27 am<br></i>

[Q Rutilius]

Thanks Vortigern. I will put those books on my "to read" list. Like Nathan I dip into this field every now and then, and I always manage to get myself thoroughly confused. Perhaps I should have phrased my inital question a bit differently:Is Arthur the same person as Lucius Artorius? That woud have been better I think. Looking at it that way, all the posts have been on-topic. Anyway, I'm learning, and that is what I come here for. <p></p><i></i>