Archaeologists find western world\'s oldest map

[hoplite14gr]

Thanks Dan.
It seems to me that the potter was trying to make a rough outline and that he was aware of the information contained on the Soleto map.
Though he new only the features of his time and not the later habitats.
I don´t think the pottery map was used to put someone in the consept.
Kind regards
Stefanos

[hansvl]

Hi,

The Soleto-ostrakon map that shocked the archaeological world seems to be a forgery. Read this

Hans

[tlclark]

Hans,

Thanks for the update

I was particularly interested in this passage.

Yntema states further that the antiques were not in the first place
interested in the exact location of the towns, but in the connecting
roads between them. Roads are not on the map

This was exactly Jasper's opinion and that led to our large discussion on spatial maps and the lack of any evidence for them. That's why this seemed so important.

Great update.

Thanks

[Arthes]

I suppose it is possible that the map is a forgery....what a disappointment.
So many archaeological finds or discoveries are discredited and often because of 'pranks' that backfire or are thought to be fakes, yet may sometimes hold something of truth...ie could still have some historical importance. This could still be a somewhat later mapping of various towns in the area....scratched onto broken pottery?
regards
Arthes

[tlclark]

Or, this might be an isolate with no corroborating tradition.

That's the problem with archaeology. Isolates DO happen.

What standard do you use to determine if an object is an isolate?

How can you tell a really good fake from a genuine isolate?

John Lowden made this same argument, with early ilustrated bibles. There are precious few, the Ashburnam Petnateuch, the Cotton Genesis, The Vienna Genesis. Remove any one and then try to reconstruct it from the other two. You can't. It's impossible. They are all isolates.

I suspect that this probably is a fake, but you never know.

Travis

[aitor iriarte]

Excuse me but this could be just another case of one archaeologist (perhaps seeking to have some notoriety) lecturing from his armchair on 'Ancients dind't do this or didn't do that thing'
Fortunately, there are several scientific methods of ascertaining if the incissions forming a graffito are old or not and that should be the way of settling the matter once and forever (Because Ancients had sometimes the bad habit of doing this or doing that... :wink: )

Aitor

[Arthes]

Greetings Aitor,

Excuse me but this could be just another case of one archaeologist (perhaps seeking to have some notoriety) lecturing from his armchair on 'Ancients dind't do this or didn't do that thing'
(Because Ancients had sometimes the bad habit of doing this or doing that... :wink: )
Aitor

That is true....'interpretations' sometimes annoy me, as they leave no room for individulity or a taste for the unusual...
If something changed between the 5th and 6th centuries for example, somebody had to originally initiate that change.....it didn't just appear from thin air....(aside from certain supernatural happenings and the myths and legends that is)
Who is to say that a late Roman who liked the look of the Phrygian helm did not have a version made to his own design....just because that individual helm has not yet been found...does not mean it never existed...! :wink: :wink:
regards
Arthes

[tlclark]

Excuse me but this could be just another case of one archaeologist (perhaps seeking to have some notoriety) lecturing from his armchair on 'Ancients dind't do this or didn't do that thing'
Fortunately, there are several scientific methods of ascertaining if the incissions forming a graffito are old or not and that should be the way of settling the matter once and forever (Because Ancients had sometimes the bad habit of doing this or doing that... :wink: )

Aitor

Hate to be the Devi's advocate here, but all scientific surface tests on the Getty Kouros concluded it was genuine. On the strength of this evidence it was exhibited until the fraud was revealed. Many still clung to the calcite formation as definitive proof of its authenticity until the very end.

There are scientific tests to test the probability that it is ancient, but all are subject to a margin of error and the forgers know EXACTLY where the margins are and how to sneak in under them.

Travis

[aitor iriarte]

You're right Travis but, of course, a forger will take far more care with an expensive marble statue than with a graffito on a small pottery sherd... at least that iwhat I think! :?

Aitor

[tlclark]

Except the tricks are simple and easy and widely circulated.

There's a whole industry to this, especially in Italy, which is forger's central.

The question is, how does someone profit from this ostraka? It could be an ego thing, but as I understand it, it was found in context, which is why they think it is a joke from a colleague/student.

Travis