Spathae info

[L C Cinna]

Hi!

I have a question>

Could someone maybe give me any info on the development of the spatha?

I'd be interested to learn a bit more about the different types (cavalry and infantry) and their development.
I mean there's lots of info on the gladius everywhere but I haven't been able to find a good description on spathae and how to tell which one is from which period. Our university library doesn't have Robinson and I couldn't get a copy of the new edition of Mr.Bishop's book yet (poor student as I am lol).

I think infantry spathae have a broader blade but that's about it. It would be great if someone could help. Thank you very much in advance.

[Flavius Promotus]

Try to get the following article:

Künzl, E., 1993, Römerzeitliche Waffen, in: Ders. (Hrsg.), Die Alamannenbeute aus dem Rhein bei Neupotz. Plünderungsgut aus dem römischen Gallien, Teil 1: Untersuchungen (= Monographien des RGZM 34,1), Mainz, 75-81.

Vol. 2 (same place, same year) includes a catalogue with measurements, and Vol. 3 images (b/w) of about 10 spathae from the mid 3rd century.

The article in Vol.1 also provides data about further literature (spatha finds from: Lyon, Augst, Osterburken, Herzberg, Buch, Pfuenz, Tournus, Damerey, Pontoux, Carnuntum, Alzey, Lampertheim, Mainz-Bretzenheim, Stockstadt, Hagenbach, Straubing, Newstead, Canterbury, Künzing and Racovita).
You can also find graphs (proportions, blade widths/lenghths etc.) and a short introduction in this article.

Most of the spatha from Neupotz were rather slim cavalry spathae (one looks almost like a straight rapier!), but the find also includes a broader one which looks almost like one of the heavy Lauriacum-Hromovka spathae (which were used by infantry - provided Ulbert was correct D )

Greets,
Florian

[Conal]

I have Googled Künzl, E etc and find nothing ... can anyone direct me to where I might look next please ?

[mcbishop]

I have Googled Künzl, E etc and find nothing ... can anyone direct me to where I might look next please ?

Have you got a different Google to the rest of us? ;-) You could start with his homepage (where he blogs on, amongst other things, wearing weapons in Rome - all in German, but the Babelfish is your friend... although it borked on one I just tried with it!) but, to be honest, you are unlikely to find any of his publications online except through subscription services (like JSTOR) and then only articles. Since our man contributes a lot to collections (conference proceedings and the like) which slip through the academic digitisation net you are probably going to have to resort to a library. The British Library has a service whereby it will copy articles ordered online for you and you can always get books by interlibrary loan from your local library service... assuming yours has not morphed into a "data shop" or "word centre" or something equally daft.

Mike Bishop

[Flavius Promotus]

Try to google Kuenzl, E.

[Conal]

Have you got a different Google to the rest of us?

Mike Bishop

I must have :roll:

Thanks

[L C Cinna]

thank you all very much for your replies

[Flavius Promotus]

You could also look for:

-Biborski, M., 1994, Römische Schwerter im Gebiet des europäischen Barbaricum, in: JRMES 5, 169-197.

-Rald, Ulla, 1994, The Roman swords from Danish bogfinds, in: JRMES 5, 227-241.

-Ulbert, G., 1974, Straubing und Nydam. Zu römischen Langschwertern der späten Limeszeit, in: Studien zur Vor- und Frühgeschichtlichen Archäologie, Festschrift f. J. Werner, München, 197-216.

-Erbelding, S., 2005, Spatha (Langschwert) aus dem Altlußheimer Grabfund, in: Imperium Romanum: Römer, Christen, Alamannen - Die Spätantike am Oberrhein: Ausstellungskatalog zur Landesausstellung im Badischen Landesmuseum Karlsruhe 2005/2006 / hrsg. v. Badischen Landesmuseum Karlsruhe. - Stuttgart.

[image and description of an Asian/East European spatha from the early to mid 5th century AD (richly decorated - the entry contains a lot of further literature)]

hope that helps :wink:

[Conal]

British Library say I cant have a photo copy due to copy right and I cant lend directly as I'm not an instuitution

I will have to try my local library to see of they can borrow on my behalf ...

[Flavius Promotus]

Wish you all the best! (thumbs are pressed)

[mcbishop]

British Library say I cant have a photo copy due to copy right and I cant lend directly as I'm not an instuitution

Hmm, puzzling, since 'fair dealing' under the copyright law (as interpreted by the Society of Authors) would not appear to be infringed by the article you want. Basically you can't photocopy a whole book but that was not what you were after. Oh well, what do the BL know about books (many years ago, as a library assistant, I used to handle inter-library loans for a small academic library so have some familiarity with the quirks of the beast ;-)?

An alternative path to try would be the Joint Library of the Hellenic and Roman Societies (wherever it is now: it used to be in Gordon Square, then went to Senate House; for all I know it may be in an underground bunker in Afghanistan by now...). Failing that, try the Sackler Library in Oxford. As the Ashmolean Library, they used to do photocopying for outsiders. You can but try; your persistence will be rewarded!

Mike Bishop

[Conal]

Thanks Mike.

I will have a go :?