Calcei boot pattern?

[Martin Moser]

Although suede boots may not like the wet grass so much as well-oiled leather faced ones

Hm, I wouldn't be that sure. It's not really suede AFAIK, as it still has the grain side (real, modern suede doesn't, I think), even though worn towards the inside. Well oiled it should do the job just as well, I could imagine.

Thinking about it, I can well imagine that in Roman times being water-proof was not that much of an issue for shoes - just look at the large number of shoes with some kind of openwork of some sort or another. You would get wet feet with those no matter how waterproof the leather.

It might also be that flesh side out was not the norm everywhere, the problem is that we have only a very small number of finds.

The only thing I am pretty sure about, though, is that the upper was cut in one piece, that's something that is just simply so universal among roman shoes that it would be surprising to find the calcei make an exception here.

[adamparsons]

I can partially answer this from experience.

Flesh side out makes no difference to grain side out if oiled, it is just harder to remove dirty marks from.

I made some 9-10th century shoes, which commonly have edging and toggles made flesh side out and look great so I tried making some completely flesh side out and one difference is does have is grip!

On stone/smooth surfaces it grips far better- so were you walkin for instance on a tile or marble floor you would be far less likely to fall on your backside- especially if it were wet or damp!

Adam
P.S Suede for any that don't know is split from very thick leather so you end up with 1 2mm piece of leather and 2 x 2mm pieces of suede from one 6-7mm piece.

P.P.S Martin- Sorry I have'nt been in touch about the book copy- Our photocopier is on the blink and I have had no time to go into town to do a copy! Sorry
Will try to get in asap!

[tlclark]

Martin, thanks for the clarification. I cut out a pattern and I will take a picture of it later today if I get the chance.

Thanks.

Travis

[tlclark]

Ok, here they are.

My patterns for calcei senatorii.





I have decided to go with a two-part upper, for two reasons. First we don't see any heel or toe seams on the originals. Also, if we make it from one piece, you can't make it with a full tongue (as shown). This is good for a couple of reasons, it saves on leather and easily replicates the look of the Calcei Senatorii. There are no visible seams on any of the images I have. I think that's because the ties cover them as they wrap around and cross on the instep.

here's a pic.


This one has 3 pairs of ties! but I'm making my with 2 sets.

I am making it from 2-4oz pigskin. All of the statuary show the toes and bones of the feet quite clearly under the thing leather boots, so they were likely very thin leather. Not sure if I'm going flesh side out as martin suggests. If I have enough leather, I will probably make a lining.

I am following a lot of florentius' guidance.

http://www.florentius.com/calcei-main.htm

[Martin Moser]

Hi Travis

My patterns for calcei senatorii.

I have decided to go with a two-part upper, for two reasons. First we don't see any heel or toe seams on the originals. Also, if we make it from one piece, you can't make it with a full tongue (as shown).

Ah, I see my explanation was not clear or rather incomplete - when I said the upper of the Mainz calcei was made of one piece I meant excluding the tongue! The visible, outer, upper upper is one piece, the tongue itself is a seperate piece that is then sewn to that upper. Sorry to have caused some confusion here ... :-( (

There are no visible seams on any of the images I have. I think that's because the ties cover them as they wrap around and cross on the instep.

Yes, I would second that opinion

here's a pic.
This one has 3 pairs of ties!

Hm, are you sure? I can make out only 2 knots and no indication of a hidden 3rd one under the corrigae. It might just be that the upper corrigae are long enough to go all the way down.

If I have enough leather, I will probably make a lining.

Note that according to Goepfrich lining possibly was textile, so you could go for the cheaper version if you run out of leather

Looking forward to see the results!

[tlclark]

Ah, I see my explanation was not clear or rather incomplete - when I said the upper of the Mainz calcei was made of one piece I meant excluding the tongue! The visible, outer, upper upper is one piece, the tongue itself is a seperate piece that is then sewn to that upper. Sorry to have caused some confusion here ... :-( (

Ok, I'll to decide if that's the way I want to go or if I decide to do two piece uppers. It's saves a lot of leather to do it in two pieces.

here's a pic.
This one has 3 pairs of ties!

Hm, are you sure? I can make out only 2 knots and no indication of a hidden 3rd one under the corrigae. It might just be that the upper corrigae are long enough to go all the way down.

Oh yes. You can count them. There is one at the top in front of the shin. Another a little further down in front, near the ankle. Now look to the side, you can see another end to a tie near the ankle on the side. There's another one on the other side. That's six ends. These are all tails because you can see the tassles on the ends.

Also if you look at the instep you can see four straps crossing, two from each side, instep of just one. The strap end on the side actually passes over one and under the other. two of the pairs of ties tie in the front, it's hard to see where the third ties. My guess is that we have two sets on the instep and one on the ankle.

If I have enough leather, I will probably make a lining.

Note that according to Goepfrich lining possibly was textile, so you could go for the cheaper version if you run out of leather

Looking forward to see the results!

[/quote]

Thanks for the tip!

About linings. I could make the outers first, then make the linings to fit. But the linings have to be JUST smaller, otherwise they will wrinkle. How do I do this? Should I just double up the leather? Do I glue them in?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Travis

[tlclark]

I've revised my pattern for my calcei senatorii a bit. I think I will procede with the two piece pattern since the straps will cover up the seams and it is actually less sewing than attaching the tongue, which would be rather complicated.

I've also extended the front of the back part where it joins the front, so that there is a better overlap and I've enlarged the tongue significantly so that it provides more coverage. I can always trim it back later.

I start cutting tonight. I will post pictures of my progress.

Travis