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Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - S SEVERUS - 07-02-2007
The Etruscans conquered the Po area in northern Italy. But which peoples did they displace or which people did they govern,... ?
How did the Etruscan cope with the Celts after wards? They simply give in or were there some battles?
Can someone give me some more info on this? A title of good book on this subject is also very welcome.
Re: Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - Conal - 07-03-2007
Try;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Roman-Celtic-In ... 388&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyond-Rubicon- ... 457&sr=1-1
Re: Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - S SEVERUS - 07-03-2007
Thanks.
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/2002/2002-07-31.html
A review a found of Beyond The Rubicon.
Re: Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - Conal - 07-03-2007
Peter Beresford Ellis is very pro Celtic in his outlook.
Some people find him hard work due to this but I cheer him on ... to balance things out of course. :roll:
I have the other on order so the review is useful..thanks.
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Re: Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - Robert Vermaat - 07-03-2007
Quote:Peter Beresford Ellis is very pro Celtic in his outlook.I would say extremely Celtic.
But I love his Sister Fidelma series!!
Re: Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - Felix - 07-03-2007
Quote:Conal:sp7lrqen Wrote:Peter Beresford Ellis is very pro Celtic in his outlook.I would say extremely Celtic.
But I love his Sister Fidelma series!!
The mysteries are great fun, indeed!
Re: Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - Conal - 07-04-2007
Quote:Conal:9z7xkmct Wrote:Peter Beresford Ellis is very pro Celtic in his outlook.I would say extremely Celtic.
There you Romans go again .... a Celt just can't wave his sword about he has to wave it about in extremis :wink:
Re: Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - ShaneA - 07-11-2007
You might also check out La Necropoli Di Monte Tamburino A Monte Bibele. Be warned that some people might not like some of the things to be found in there. Nathan Bell and myself have already been in some pretty hot exchanges with some Romans over all the pila style javelins that the Celts were carrying at this time.
Shane Allee
Re: Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - Conal - 07-11-2007
Quote:You might also check out La Necropoli Di Monte Tamburino A Monte Bibele. Be warned that some people might not like some of the things to be found in there. Nathan Bell and myself have already been in some pretty hot exchanges with some Romans over all the pila style javelins that the Celts were carrying at this time.
Shane Allee
Shane
please expand on this.
The book costs around $180, two volumes and 810 pages
hock: .... is it well illustrated ?
Re: Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - ShaneA - 07-11-2007
It is very well illustrated. There is 151 graves, volume one has drawings of each grave and the information about the grave goods and volume two has the more detailed drawings of each object. Great stuff for anyone interested in the La Tene I period celts, and particularly this area. If at all possible interlibrary loan, that is what we end up doing most of the time since some of these are costly.
Shane
Re: Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - Conal - 07-12-2007
And the hot exchanges ref pila style javelins ?
Is the suggestion that our Gaulish chums might have had this before the Romans 8)
Re: Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - ShaneA - 07-13-2007
Are you crazy? We got hate mail just from saying we had the archaeology that showed these types were common for the Celts in Northern Italy and that their use never totally went out of use through out the la tene. If just suggesting that other things were going on than what the Roman authors said got people that hot, someone else to look into the origins of the type.
Shane
Re: Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - Robert Vermaat - 07-13-2007
Hate mail? Wow....
Re: Northern Italy : Etruscans - Celts - Conal - 07-16-2007
Quote:Are you crazy? We got hate mail just from saying we had the archaeology that showed these types were common for the Celts in Northern Italy and that their use never totally went out of use through out the la tene. If just suggesting that other things were going on than what the Roman authors said got people that hot, someone else to look into the origins of the type.
Shane
Hey, it's got to be addressed. The Romans got their helmets, mail, sword & I have read contentions the shield from the Gauls ... so why not the pila ?
Could of course mean that the Gauls got them from the same source as the Romans but possibly earlier.
Etruscans/Celts - Paullus Scipio - 07-16-2007
Hate Mail ??? Over such a subject ? You certainly won't get that here !
Venture any opinion you wish, so long as you are prepared to have it challenged, and as long as you are able to support your views with evidence, you will find your views accepted/tolerated.
After all, half the fun of ancient history is that it is a jigsaw with most of the pieces missing :?
Now as to the origins of pila, AFIK the earliest examples of socketed pila occur in 5-6th century Etruscan tombs (Volci? I can't recall exactly).
The earliest depictions of the tanged variety ( if the painting is interpreted correctly) occur in a 4th century tomb painting from Tarquinii. It would appear that the two types of pila were developed separately in Italy, the first by the Etruscans, the second either also by the Etruscans or possibly Latins. Both these pre-date the Celtic eruption into the Po valley, so surely the Celts adopted it from the Italians?
Similarly the scutum appears earliest in Italy, at a time when the Celts were apparently using small round shields, so the Celts seem to have adopted and simplified ( their version was flat ) the scutum.
By way of exchange, the Italian peoples adopted mail from the celts, and after the invasions, the Montefortino helmet becomes popular in Italy.
None of this is absolutely certain of course, but on the evidence we have so far, it seems the likeliest interpretation.
Furthermore, whenever two cultures meet/clash, exchanges of technology take place especially in the crucible of warfare, so the 'instantaneous' appearance of pila/scuta among the Celts should be no surprise. Indeed the scutum may have been adopted prior to the Celts crossing the Alps.
Any further evidence that members may be aware of, would, of course be of great interest.