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+--- Thread: apron discs with decoration (/showthread.php?tid=9249)
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apron discs with decoration - Marcus Mummius - 05-01-2007
Salve omnes,
I was wondering if the decoration on 1st century AD apron discs was always filled with niello or if enamel was also used?
Vale,
Re: apron discs with decoration - Peroni - 05-01-2007
Some were decorated but had no inlay at all. The punched ring and dot studs from London bear this out.
Re: apron discs with decoration - Tarbicus - 05-01-2007
The Vindonissa and Augusta Raurica catalogues have studs with niello inlay. Not sure about the proper dates as I don't read German, but they look to be typical 1st C. Does it make sense for belt plates to have niello inlay aplenty, yet none on the apron studs?
Re: apron discs with decoration - Marcus Mummius - 05-01-2007
Thanks guys.
I agree with Jim that niello inlaid beltplates and un-nielloed apron discs with more or less the same decoration wouldn't make a lot of sense...
Damn I really have to buy the Vindonissa Catalogue
. I have the drawings but haven't got the text that goes with them.So the decorated apron discs are more or less the same period as the type A beltplates? Could a balteus with type B beltplates have decorated studs with niello inlay?
Vale,
Re: apron discs with decoration - AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs - 05-01-2007
Salve,
If you can post the German, I have translators that might be able to assist.
Re: apron discs with decoration - mcbishop - 05-02-2007
Quote:I was wondering if the decoration on 1st century AD apron discs was always filled with niello or if enamel was also used?
Always niello (there are different types, don't forget, but very few have been analysed). Enamel-inlaid studs come in during the 2nd century (but are not necessarily 'apron' fittings).
Mike Bishop
Re: apron discs with decoration - M. Demetrius - 05-02-2007
Niello is a complicated process. If one's plates, etc., were done with more modern enamel, would it ruffle anyone else's feathers?
Re: apron discs with decoration - Marcus Mummius - 05-02-2007
It looks very similar. I intend to use black enamel too... The ones from armillum are done with black enamel and look okay.
![[Image: placacin2.jpg]](http://armillum.com/tienda/images/placacin2.jpg)
Re: apron discs with decoration - Gaius Julius Caesar - 05-02-2007
That is what my belt has Jef, nd looks ok..... no complaints, yet.... :wink:
Re: apron discs with decoration - Marcus Mummius - 05-02-2007
So what do you all think?
Could niello inlaid apron studs be combined with type B beltplates (wide belplates with a design like wolf and twins, eagle etc...)?
Vale,
Re: apron discs with decoration - Matt Lukes - 05-02-2007
Quote:Niello is a complicated process. If one's plates, etc., were done with more modern enamel, would it ruffle anyone else's feathers?
The only real issue with respect to correct look when it comes to enamel is that it settles low and thus has a concave look- the picture Jef posted show it well. The process of Niello filling has a step near the end of using abrasive on the surface to bring it all level, so niello is flush with the surface of the piece it's filling. There's no way to correct this, albeit minor, issue, however I'm thinking that black-tinted epoxy might be a better and rather easier choice- no heating, easy mixing and application, and you can sand it down flush. Given real niello's difficulties (toxic, hard to do, etc.), and that enamel is already a sacrifice to authenticity, personally I see no reason that epoxy is any worse- better really when its considered that should replicate the look of niello better than enamel. Just my two sestertii of course :wink:
Re: apron discs with decoration - Matt Lukes - 05-02-2007
Quote:So what do you all think?
Could niello inlaid apron studs be combined with type B beltplates (wide belplates with a design like wolf and twins, eagle etc...)?
Vale,
I'm unaware of any clear evidence that would preclude the mix- that's hardly an ideal answer, I know, but I'd expect it might be rather hard to find proper support for it given that this would really only take the form of clearly associated artifacts suggesting they were part of a single belt...
Re: apron discs with decoration - Marcus Mummius - 05-02-2007
I was planning to use cold enamel, but epoxy might be a good option too.
The only problem I see is with tinning the plates then... If you first tin them the tinning will be destroyed by filing the epoxy flush with the metal. And I don't know what the tinning proces will do to the epoxy if this is applied first...
Slightly off topic: would a belt with type A plates with punced in decoration be out of place for a second half of the 1st century AD impression? Most people who reenact this period wear belts with type B beltplates but there seems to be quite a lot of evidence for type A beltplates in the 2nd half of the 1st century AD too.
Vale,
Re: apron discs with decoration - Gaius Julius Caesar - 05-02-2007
I use it for my impression! It was an heirloom from granddad, who fought with Caesar! :lol:
Re: apron discs with decoration - Peroni - 05-02-2007
Quote:Slightly off topic: would a belt with type A plates with punced in decoration be out of place for a second half of the 1st century AD impression? Most people who reenact this period wear belts with type B beltplates but there seems to be quite a lot of evidence for type A beltplates in the 2nd half of the 1st century AD too.
Most niello-inlaid belt plates of the type A classification are generally thought of as pre-Flavian, which is pre 69/70 so your late first century is OK in my book. I don't see why they couldn't continue in use from the Claudian period.
Quote:It was an heirloom from granddad, who fought with Caesar!
Caesar's soldiers would not have had this type of belt plate. finds are few and far between, but no inlaid plates AFAIK.