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+--- Thread: Rectangular shields B.C.? (/showthread.php?tid=9232)
Rectangular shields B.C.? - marcii ulpi messala - 04-30-2007
These images demonstrate soldiers with square shields dated between the centuries (II-I) B.C.. They are dated badly or this shield was known in epoch of Augusto and it became standard hereinafter later on?
century I B.C. Aquila museum
![[Image: AfricaxAsia.jpg]](http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p273/6166/AfricaxAsia.jpg)
Re: Rectangular shields B.C.? - marcii ulpi messala - 04-30-2007
century II-I B.C.
![[Image: Marineslegionarios.jpg]](http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p273/6166/Marineslegionarios.jpg)
Re: Rectangular shields B.C.? - marcii ulpi messala - 04-30-2007
century I B.C.
![[Image: scutunmosaico.jpg]](http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p273/6166/scutunmosaico.jpg)
Re: Rectangular shields B.C.? - Dan Diffendale - 04-30-2007
Hmmm, I was just looking at a book of Etruscan urns, and one had a Gaul with a square shield -- I'll get the reference for you.
Re: Rectangular shields B.C.? - Tarbicus - 04-30-2007
They're all Roman? The last mosaic just made my mind up about the tunic colour debate, if ever I was forced to make a decision, if they are all Roman.
Re: Rectangular shields B.C.? - MeinPanzer - 04-30-2007
Quote:They're all Roman? The last mosaic just made my mind up about the tunic colour debate, if ever I was forced to make a decision, if they are all Roman.
The last one (the Praeneste Nile mosaic) is controversial. The main problem is that that area of the mosaic (under a large tent, with several soldiers assembled) has apparently been restored at some point, and so the details are unclear. The shield that man is carrying is semicylindrical, which is not something seen on other Ptolemaic shields (other than the Kasr el-Harit shield, which is also controversial because it seems to have been found in a Ptolemaic context and date to the late Ptolemaic period, but it seems very Roman in form). Some of those soldiers also wear Thracian helmets with peaks, which again muddles the whole issue.
But to answer the original question, rectangular thureoi were not uncommon in the late Hellenistic period. They were carried by Thracians, appear a couple of times on the Pergamene weapons reliefs, can be seen in Celtic contexts, and were not uncommon among the Italian peoples. They can be seen in numerous late Republican sources. The 1st C. BC was when the scuta with top and bottom edges began to emerge, and that is what you see in that second relief.
Edit: And the first is actually a gladiatorial relief.
Re: Rectangular shields B.C.? - Alexandr K - 05-01-2007
Hi,
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=13666&
Alexandr
Re: Rectangular shields B.C.? - Carlton Bach - 05-01-2007
Bear in mind that not all square shields belong to the scutum tradition. Hellenistic sports festivals sometimes included among their combat sport events a contest of 'thyromacheia' - 'door-fighting', which is the counterpart to hoplomacheis, traditional armoured shieldfighting. It is thought that that 'door' is a large shield, similar to a scutum, but quite possibly its own kind. My first guess would be Balkan Celtic, but it's really not so unintuitive a shape for shields.
Re: Rectangular shields B.C.? - MeinPanzer - 05-01-2007
Quote:Bear in mind that not all square shields belong to the scutum tradition. Hellenistic sports festivals sometimes included among their combat sport events a contest of 'thyromacheia' - 'door-fighting', which is the counterpart to hoplomacheis, traditional armoured shieldfighting. It is thought that that 'door' is a large shield, similar to a scutum, but quite possibly its own kind. My first guess would be Balkan Celtic, but it's really not so unintuitive a shape for shields.
The name 'thureos' means doorstone, and not door. It is the name for the oblong shields with a wooden "barley corn" boss and a spine. Thureoi could be ovoid, rectangular, or even hexagonal, though. Technically, the scutum is a kind of thureos, and Polybius refers to Roman shields as thureoi in his Histories.
The rectangular shape pops up among thureoi all over the place at different times, though, so I think it was just a natural variation on the ovoid shape of the original thureoi.
Re: Rectangular shields B.C.? - D B Campbell - 05-01-2007
Quote:The name 'thureos' means doorstone, and not door.A mistake which Livy hilariously made in his account of the siege of Ambracia (189 BC), lifted from Polybius.
The latter (21.28.11) describes soldiers in the subterranean galleries battling with pikes (sarisais) and shields (thureous) which, in Livy's version (38.7.10), become "mining tools" (ferramentis) and doors (foribus)!!