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+--- Thread: Gladii Service Dates (/showthread.php?tid=9084)
Gladii Service Dates - irwimar - 04-17-2007
Was wondering if anyone could provide the approximate dates of "service" for each of the three types of gladii - Mainz, Fulham & Pompei.
Thanks.
Re: Gladii Service Dates - M. Demetrius - 04-18-2007
That would be a good bit to tack on the wall, all right.
Re: Gladii Service Dates - Virilis - 04-18-2007
This is my estimation, shooting from the hip:
-MAINZ. Perhaps first models were introduced as early as the time of Caesar (appr. 50bc) as an adaptation of the longer Gladius Hispaniensis. Therefore the waisted shoulders of the Mainz gladius and the long tapering point. Used approximatelyt from 50 BC to 50 AD?
-FULHAM. Some say that this was the transition model between the Mainz and Pompeii type gladiuses. In my opinion it might be a just a "simpler" Mainz type gladius with no waisted shoulders etc. Anyway from somewhere 30 BC to 50AD?
-POMPEII. Nowadays it is considered possible that the first Pompeii type gladiuses were introduced as early as the "Varusschlacht" (Teutoburg forest) 9 AD. It started to go away during the "antonine revolution" replaced by spathas and ring pommel swords due to the danubian (sarmatian?) influence. From the birth of christ to the 160-80 AD?
Of course it is not so simple, there were also those "semispathas" and shorter swords in the later times, such as the "Künzing hoard" swords...
Hope this helps...
Re: Gladii Service Dates - irwimar - 04-19-2007
Thanks Jyrki, I appreciate the information.
Re: Gladii Service Dates - Crispvs - 04-26-2007
I agree that the Fulham sword is a variant of the Mainz type. The latest evidence I know of for the Mainz type incidentally, is a sword found at Vindonissa which may have been deposited as late as the AD70s.
Crispvs
Re: Gladii Service Dates - Tarbicus - 04-27-2007
Quote:The latest evidence I know of for the Mainz type incidentally, is a sword found at Vindonissa which may have been deposited as late as the AD70s.That's good to know. Got any more info?
Re: Gladii Service Dates - Crispvs - 04-27-2007
I'll e-mail you the article.
Crispvs
Re: Gladii Service Dates - Matt Lukes - 04-28-2007
Indeed the fulhamensis is considered by many to be a subtype of the mainzensis, and in truth I'm not so sure it's actually a type of its own; I enlarged a good photograph of the actual Fulham gladius and although the edge is corroded, and maybe even because it is, it's hardly clearly unwaisted. It has the same general dimensions as an average mainzensis blade, among the population of which there is a spectrum of waist depth from obvious to very gentle, making me more inclined to think that the Fulham gladius is simply a smith variant rather than a specific type or subtype (beyond the artificial academic, typology meaning). I can't see how it could be considered a transitional or even really an evolutionary type since it bears no resemblance to the pompeiensis and is still almost completely of the mainzensis family.
Does anyone actually know of another fulhamensis blade other than the Fulham sword in the BM?
Re: Gladii Service Dates - Tarbicus - 04-28-2007
Thing is, a Mainz gladius was found dated to the 60's AD. Perhaps up to fifty years old, but then perhaps the Fulham gladius was also fifty years old?
Re: Gladii Service Dates - Gaius Julius Caesar - 04-29-2007
Could have been a Mainz sharpened to death. I have often thought it was a possibility, Matt.
Re: Gladii Service Dates - Matt Lukes - 04-30-2007
Quite so- there's a mainzensis displayed in the Carnuntum Museum that's described as having asymmetrical edges from apparent sharpening and removal of nicks, and it certainly seems reasonable that the small sections that are wider again down near where the point taper begins could be ground down over time. The corrosion and indeed the bits of wood left by the disintegrated scabbard body dont' help however...