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+--- Thread: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century (/showthread.php?tid=8904)
Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - Sulla - 04-01-2007
Hi all I was doing some research on roman wall painting from the first century and found this image of a Roman General as Romulus.
![[Image: romulus_warrior.jpg]](http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/romulus_warrior.jpg)
Quote:"Romulus depicted as Roman general (replica)" http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/index8.html
copy of a wall painting from the Via d'Abbondanza in Pompeii (first century CE)
Romulus is depicted wearing Roman armor and patrician shoes; he carries a spear and a trophy, the spolia opima that he had won in the year after Rome's foundation.
EUR (Rome), Museum of Roman Civilization. Credits: Barbara McManus, 2003
Keywords: Vergil, Aeneid, Virgil, fresco
Are there any other images of musculata or other roman armor in color from around the firt century?
Oh and here is a basic page on Roman wall painting if any one is interested. http://www.accla.org/actaaccla/ramage.html
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - Tarbicus - 04-01-2007
And another, Aeneas carries Anchises and leads Ascanius out of Troy, showing white pteryges again:
![[Image: aeneas_triad.jpg]](http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/aeneas_triad.jpg)
It's on the same page, as is Aeneas wounded:
![[Image: aeneas_wounded.jpg]](http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/aeneas_wounded.jpg)
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - Sulla - 04-01-2007
What the date on that one?
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - Tarbicus - 04-01-2007
They're both from Pompeii, so 1st C. The first one I posted is from the same house as yours.
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - Sulla - 04-01-2007
Good to know. Trying to figure out how common the color pattern was. Since its from the same house it does not help much
Hopefully there are some more floating around some place.
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - Tarbicus - 04-01-2007
There are mosaics from St Maria Maggiore that clearly show both bronze and iron (or silvered) musculata. The thread's about on RAT. They're not 1st C, but portray many ancient (ancient to the Romans, that is) scenes with Hellenised figures.
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - Sulla - 04-01-2007
Thanks for the tip I will see if I can find the thread.
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - Gaius Julius Caesar - 04-01-2007
Good depiction of a plain bronze musculata
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - mcbishop - 04-01-2007
Quote:They're both from Pompeii, so 1st C. The first one I posted is from the same house as yours.
There's also the less-famous (there are several) Sacrifice of Iphigenia scene from the House of the Vettii which I can only find in B&W on the web (although I have a colour postcard). It shows Agamemnon in white pteryges (fetchingly edged in gold ;-), a turquoise tunic (yuk!), a maroon cloak and an iron (or silvered) muscle cuirass, again with gold bits.
The problem with all of these Pompeian wallpaintings is that they are probably rip-offs of Hellenistic masterpieces (the Roman equivalents of the Green Lady, for those who remember her...), and so may not tell you anything about Roman colours, merely how the artists interpreted the Hellenistic original.
Mike Bishop
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - Arthes - 04-01-2007
I noticed the sword worn by Aeneas looks like a Xiphos or a
Samnite sword... and the warriors behind have the aspis and Chalcidian/Attic style helms.
The first two resemble Alexander....!
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - Sulla - 04-02-2007
Quote:The problem with all of these Pompeian wallpaintings is that they are probably rip-offs of Hellenistic masterpieces (the Roman equivalents of the Green Lady, for those who remember her...), and so may not tell you anything about Roman colours, merely how the artists interpreted the Hellenistic original.Of course comparing say the first image to the statues we have you can see the ripped off the entire idea from earler times. So why would they not have taken the colors also? Also there is a tendency amoung artists to make things look like there own times. To look like what they have seen with their own eyes.
Also the colors match exactly Caligulas statue - Red, Blue and White. [url:16ndu4lh]http://www.romanhideout.com/news/2004/Theguardian20041119.asp[/url]
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - mcbishop - 04-02-2007
Quote:Of course comparing say the first image to the statues we have you can see the ripped off the entire idea from earler times. So why would they not have taken the colors also? Also there is a tendency amoung artists to make things look like there own times. To look like what they have seen with their own eyes.
Also the colors match exactly Caligulas statue - Red, Blue and White. [url:2llrxe0p]http://www.romanhideout.com/news/2004/Theguardian20041119.asp[/url]
Proves nothing, as there is a demonstrable tendency towards archaization in the Roman world (as with the statuette depicting Nero as Alexander in the BM). The colours on the Caligula statue might deliberately recall those of Hellenistic times for all sorts of reasons to which we no longer have access. As for the paintings, one could argue that there are just as many reasons why the artist would slavishly copy the colours of the original as contribute his own contemporary 'take' on a scene.
All I'm saying is that this sort of evidence proves nothing; it offers a valuable range of alternatives, but it could just as easily not represent contemporary colours as it could accurately reflect them. As with experimental archaeology, it is important to be clear about the limitations (and context) of the evidence (a lesson many prehistorians need to learn with their sometimes overly promiscuous use of ethnographic parallels).
Mike Bishop
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - Sulla - 04-02-2007
I dont believe I ever said it proves anything. But it is the only idea we really have about color of the musculata since we dont have any. Unless there is a reference that mentions color I do not know about. So thats all just a good idea of what could have been until more info comes along.
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - Theodosius the Great - 04-02-2007
Quote:There's also the less-famous (there are several) Sacrifice of Iphigenia scene from the House of the Vettii which I can only find in B&W on the web (although I have a colour postcard). It shows Agamemnon in white pteryges (fetchingly edged in gold ;-) ) , a turquoise tunic (yuk!), a maroon cloak and an iron (or silvered) muscle cuirass, again with gold bits.
Wow, thank you for that description
Quote:The problem with all of these Pompeian wallpaintings is that they are probably rip-offs of Hellenistic masterpieces (the Roman equivalents of the Green Lady, for those who remember her...), and so may not tell you anything about Roman colours, merely how the artists interpreted the Hellenistic original.
At least they would seem to confirm or verify that the musculata was made from either bronze or brass.
They have some value since they're among few surviving color depictions of what a common color scheme may have looked like. I'm glad I just happend to color my pteruges white with a gold edging :wink:
About the Aeneas painting, I wonder if the right shoulder is visible. Or is it obscured by the sagum ? It'd be nice if we can see a plate or leather harness.
~Theo
Re: Roman wall painting of musculata in color from first century - Magnus - 04-03-2007
Why would they paint metal??? Especially when you have a slave to keep it nice and shiny for you.