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+--- Thread: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? (/showthread.php?tid=8876)
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - RUBICON - 04-10-2007
Copy and Paste the text you are quoting into your reply, highlight that text, then click the QUOTE button above the text field you are typing in. It will automatically turn it into a quoted text.
Quote:Hopefuly this works....thanks Jim
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - RUBICON - 04-10-2007
Copy and Paste the text you are quoting into your reply, highlight that text, then click the QUOTE button above the text field you are typing in. It will automatically turn it into a quoted text.
Quote:Hmmmm weird..last tiem it quote the part i didnt want quoted :oops:
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - RUBICON - 04-10-2007
and again!!!! is this a MAC thing maybe?
Im highlighting what you wrote Tarbicus buts it quotes the part I didnt highlight
:?
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - Dan Diffendale - 04-10-2007
You have to highlight the text you've ALREADY copied and pasted into your message, and then hit "Quote." Otherwise it will just quote whatever you type next.
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - RUBICON - 04-10-2007
You have to highlight the text you've ALREADY copied and pasted into your message, and then hit "Quote." Otherwise it will just quote whatever you type next.[quote]
Now i highlighted the above wording, HIT quote,,,,now lets see when I type some more ...
blah blah blah
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - RUBICON - 04-10-2007
I give up!
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - drsrob - 04-10-2007
Instead of looking at the ways to quote, try looked at what the result should look like in your editor:
Code:
[quote]This text I want quoted.[/quote]As you see the code
Quote: should be placed before the quoted text and the code:after it.
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - Roy - 04-12-2007
From Vegetius' De Re militari (translated):
The line of infantry being formed, the cavalry are drawn up in the wings. The heavy horse, that is, the cuirassiers and troopers armed with lances, should join the infantry. The light cavalry, consisting of the archers and those who have no cuirasses, should be placed at a greater distance. The best and heaviest horse are to cover the flanks of the foot, and the light horse are posted as abovementioned to surround and disorder the enemy's wings. A general should know what part of his own cavalry is most proper to oppose any particular squadrons or troops of the enemy. For from some causes not to be accounted for some particular corps fight better against others, and those who have defeated superior enemies are often overcome by an inferior force.
If your cavalry is not equal to the enemy's it is proper, after the ancient custom, to intermingle it with light infantry armed with small shields and trained to this kind of service. By observing this method, even though the flower of the enemy's cavalry should attack you, they will never be able to cope with this mixed disposition. This was the only resource of the old generals to supply the defects of their cavalry, and they intermingled the men, used to running and armed for this purpose with light shields, swords and darts, among the horse, placing one of them between two troopers.
(This is about late Roman cavalry of course)
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - Robert Vermaat - 04-13-2007
Quote:(This is about late Roman cavalry of course)
Is it? With vegetius we can never be sure if he's describing his own days (later 4th c.), undocumented earlier times (3rd c.) or, as he often does, harking back to the times of Polybius.
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - Roy - 04-13-2007
Quote:Roy:2pswrtfj Wrote:(This is about late Roman cavalry of course)
Is it? With vegetius we can never be sure if he's describing his own days (later 4th c.), undocumented earlier times (3rd c.) or, as he often does, harking back to the times of Polybius.
Seems to me that in this case it's quite clear though.
He talks about the 'ancient' Romans and 'the old generals', and mentions horse-archers (and unless I'm mistaken, those were not/rarely used during the Republican/Early Imperial times).
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - Robert Vermaat - 04-13-2007
Quote:Seems to me that in this case it's quite clear though.
He talks about the 'ancient' Romans and 'the old generals', and mentions horse-archers (and unless I'm mistaken, those were not/rarely used during the Republican/Early Imperial times).
Exactly! A mix of old and new, 'ancient custom' and horse-archers, and leaving us to doubt if he was not making it up (sometimes he does) to fashion something new with both!
I never heard of Late Roman cavalry bearing intermingled with infantry. That sounds indeed very early Roman (Caesar did it?), yet Vegetius recommends it for his Late Roman audience.
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - Felix - 04-13-2007
This is an account of a cavalry charge where neither the cavalrymen nor the opposing infantry flinched, and what happened to both. The author was a serving cavalry officer with the unit, and later on became famous as a war correspondent and military historian.
"The regiment formed
into line of squadron columns, and continued at a walk until within 300
yards of this small body of Dervishes...the
blue-clad men dropped on their knees, and there burst out a loud, crackling
fire of musketry. It was hardly possible to miss such a target at such
a range. Horses and men fell at once. The only course was plain and welcome
to all. The Colonel, nearer than his regiment, already saw what lay behind
the skirmishers. He ordered, 'Right wheel into line' to be sounded.
The trumpet jerked out a shrill note, heard faintly above the trampling of
the horses and the noise of the rifles. On the instant all the sixteen
troops swung round and locked up into a long galloping line, and the
21st Lancers were committed to their first charge in war.
...The pace was fast and the distance short. Yet, before it was half covered,
the whole aspect of the affair changed. A deep crease in the ground--a dry
watercourse, a khor--appeared where all had seemed smooth, level plain;
and from it there sprang, with the suddenness of a pantomime effect
and a high-pitched yell, a dense white mass of men nearly as long as our
front and about twelve deep. A score of horsemen and a dozen bright flags
rose as if by magic from the earth. Eager warriors sprang forward
to anticipate the shock. The rest stood firm to meet it. The Lancers
acknowledged the apparition only by an increase of pace. Each man wanted
sufficient momentum to drive through such a solid line... The riflemen, firing bravely
to the last, were swept head over heels into the khor, and jumping down
with them, at full gallop and in the closest order, the British squadrons
struck the fierce brigade with one loud furious shout. The collision was
prodigious. Nearly thirty Lancers, men and horses, and at least two hundred
Arabs were overthrown. The shock was stunning to both sides, and for
perhaps ten wonderful seconds no man heeded his enemy. Terrified horses
wedged in the crowd, bruised and shaken men, sprawling in heaps, struggled,
dazed and stupid, to their feet, panted, and looked about them. Several
fallen Lancers had even time to re-mount. Meanwhile the impetus of the
cavalry carried them on. As a rider tears through a bullfinch, the officers
forced their way through the press; and as an iron rake might be drawn
through a heap of shingle, so the regiment followed. They shattered the
Dervish array, and, their pace reduced to a walk, scrambled out of the khor
on the further side, leaving a score of troopers behind them, and dragging
on with the charge more than a thousand Arabs. Then, and not till then, the
killing began; and thereafter each man saw the world along his lance,
under his guard, or through the back-sight of his pistol; and each had
his own strange tale to tell.
Stubborn and unshaken infantry hardly ever meet stubborn and unshaken
cavalry. Either the infantry run away and are cut down in flight, or they
keep their heads and destroy nearly all the horsemen by their musketry.
On this occasion two living walls had actually crashed together.
The Dervishes fought manfully. They tried to hamstring the horses,
They fired their rifles, pressing the muzzles into the very bodies of
their opponents. They cut reins and stirrup-leathers. They flung their
throwing-spears with great dexterity. They tried every device of cool,
determined men practised in war and familiar with cavalry; and, besides,
they swung sharp, heavy swords which bit deep. The hand-to-hand fighting
on the further side of the khor lasted for perhaps one minute. Then the
horses got into their stride again, the pace increased, and the Lancers
drew out from among their antagonists. Within two minutes of the collision
every living man was clear of the Dervish mass.
...Riderless horses galloped across the plain. Men, clinging to
their saddles, lurched helplessly about, covered with blood from perhaps
a dozen wounds. Horses, streaming from tremendous gashes, limped and
staggered with their riders. In 120 seconds five officers, 65 men, and 119
horses out of fewer than 400 had been killed or wounded."
The book was "The River War", by Winston Churchill.
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - Felix - 04-13-2007
Some individual incidents of various members of the 21st lancers followed:
"Such is the true and literal account of the charge; but the reader
may care to consider a few incidents. Colonel Martin, busy with the
direction of his regiment, drew neither sword nor revolver, and rode
through the press unarmed and uninjured. Major Crole Wyndham had his horse
shot under him by a Dervish who pressed the muzzle of his rifle into its
hide before firing. From out of the middle of that savage crowd the
officer fought his way on foot and escaped in safety. Lieutenant Molyneux
fell in the khor into the midst of the enemy. In the confusion he
disentangled himself from his horse, drew his revolver, and jumped out
of the hollow before the Dervishes recoved from the impact of the charge.
Then they attacked him. He fired at the nearest, and at the moment of
firing was slashed across the right wrist by another. The pistol fell
from his nerveless hand, and, being wounded, dismounted, and disarmed,
he turned in the hopes of regaining, by following the line of the charge,
his squadron, which was just getting clear. Hard upon his track came
the enemy, eager to make an end. Beset on all sides, and thus hotly
pursued, the wounded officer perceived a single Lancer riding across his
path. He called on him for help. Whereupon the trooper, Private Byrne,
although already severely wounded by a bullet which had penetrated his
right arm, replied without a moment's hesitation and in a cheery voice,
'All right, sir!' and turning, rode at four Dervishes who were about to
kill his officer. His wound, which had partly paralysed his arm,
prevented him from grasping his sword, and at the first ineffectual
blow it fell from his hand, and he received another wound from a spear
in the chest. But his solitary charge had checked the pursuing Dervishes.
Lieutenant Molyneux regained his squadron alive, and the trooper, seeing
that his object was attained, galloped away, reeling in his saddle.
Arrived at his troop, his desperate condition was noticed and he was told
to fall out. But this he refused to do, urging that he was entitled to
remain on duty and have 'another go at them.' At length he was compelled
to leave the field, fainting from loss of blood.
Lieutenant Nesham had an even more extraordinary escape than Molyneux.
He had scrambled out of the khor when, as his horse was nearly stopping,
an Arab seized his bridle. He struck at the man with his sword, but did not
prevent him cutting his off-rein. The officer's bridle-hand, unexpectedly
released, flew out, and, as it did so, a swordsman at a single stroke
nearly severed it from his body. Then they cut at him from all sides.
One blow sheared through his helmet and grazed his head. Another inflicted
a deep wound in his right leg. A third, intercepted by his shoulder-chains,
paralysed his right arm. Two more, missing him narrowly, cut right through
the cantel of the saddle and into the horse's back. The wounded subaltern
--he was the youngest of all--reeled. A man on either side seized his legs
to pull him to the ground; but the long spurs stuck into the horse's flanks,
and the maddened animal, throwing up its head and springing forward,
broke away from the crowd of foes, and carried the rider--bleeding,
fainting, but still alive--to safety among the rallying squadrons.
Lieutenant Nesham's experience was that of the men who were killed,
only that he escaped to describe it."
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - Theodosius the Great - 04-18-2007
Just to elaborate on what I said earlier about Hannibal's Spanish cavalry :
[size=150:1u9rrkg7]The cavalryman was also armed with a falcata, and is frequently mentioned as dismounting to fight along side the infantry when necessary, or even as carrying another man, armed with falcata and caetra (small shield), on the back of his horse into battle, when the second man would dismount to fight on foot.[/size] [Armies of the Carthaginian Wars, 265-146 BC (Osprey)]
So, carrying the second man wasn't only for long distance travel. As said earlier, Hannibal may have used his Spanish cavalry to close the encirclement at Cannae in this way.
~Theo
Re: what was the function of the Roman cavalry? - Felix - 04-18-2007
I am not a horseman, but I am curious about the idea of putting two men on a horse for long distance travel. I can understand doing this for a short period of time, but I would think that burdening the horse for a long period could injure the animal. :?