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Review of 300 the movie - stevesarak - 03-12-2007
Hi,
Just saw 300 the movie and wanted to say what a nice surprise it was. After seeing some of the previews and seeing what looked like creatures or monsters, and seeing what I thought was poor acting, I didn’t expect much, but what a surprise. Of course it’s still a movie based on someone’s book, not just history, so some of the history has been changed, altered, or shown out of order to make for a better show, but for those of us that are familiar with what happened, it was basically correct.
Another surprise was the feel of the movie, it’s been awhile since I saw a good action movie like this and didn’t walk away thinking that they could have done such a better job. I walk away satisfied that I got what I paid for, and even more.
So for those of you that are on the fence about the movie, go out and see it. I saw it at the IMAX, supposedly the worlds larges screens and digitally mastered, great experience.
Re: Review of 300 the movie - FlaviusCrispus - 03-12-2007
Quote:Just saw 300 the movie and wanted to say what a nice surprise it was. After seeing some of the previews and seeing what looked like creatures or monsters, and seeing what I thought was poor acting, I didn’t expect much, but what a surprise
I have to agree with you totally, Steve. Went last night to see it with my daughter and her boyfriend (both big anime fans), and we all came away loving it, for different reasons. I would have to warn viewers not to go in expecting a History Channel-like documentary on the battle of Thermopylae, or anything approaching historical accuracy in costume, armor and/or equipment (little chance of that, with all the images of Spartans wearing only leather Speedos and cloaks!). It's definitely told from the standpoint of a myth, that has been embellished and "improved" over time (i.e. the Immortals portrayed as samurai sword-weilding ninjas, the gunpowder bombs employed by "Asiatic" troops). But, oddly enough, some of the tactics employed were accurate (the Spartan phalanx vs. Persian "mob" attack on the first day) were pretty much correct, and it's never, ever less than entertaining and visually dazzling. I also loved that it was totally anti-PC in its depiction of heroes and villains. Finally, that last, stirring speech by the lone survivor of Thermopylae to the Greeks assembled at Plataea-- my god, how stirring, how wonderful, how appropriate to all ages, but most especially to our own! Flooded my heart with pride at being a child of Western civilization, and brought tears to my eyes!
Can anyone locate that speech, and post it?
Re: Review of 300 the movie - Tarbicus - 03-12-2007
Quote:it was totally anti-PC in its depiction of heroes and villains.Simplistic?
Quote:my god, how stirring, how wonderful, how appropriate to all ages, but most especially to our own! Flooded my heart with pride at being a child of Western civilization, and brought tears to my eyes!And Jona's point is proven
Re: Review of 300 the movie - FlaviusCrispus - 03-12-2007
Quote:Simplistic?
Yes, I know. Everything now is "nuanced." No real heroes or villains, only shades of gray. "If you only really studied Osama, you'd know why he did what he did, and understand that it was the eeevil westerners that drove him to it, and feel guilty, because, after all, it's really OUR fault he did what he did..." blah blah blah blah. That's the tone virtually every movie takes these days. That's why it's such a revelation to see something so different. And why the PC crowd can't stand to see one movie out of hundreds refuse to toe the line.
Quote:And Jona's point is proven
Righty-oh. We're all supposed to feel guilty about our horrible civilization's heritage of oppression, slavery, materialism and addiction to fast food. If we go to watch "300," we should instead root for that compassionate Rainbow Coalition, the Persians, to enlighten those predatory European white males.
You Brits have a good expression that sums up my feelings for such drivel. "SOD IT!"
Re: Review of 300 the movie - Tarbicus - 03-12-2007
Dave, you're way overreacting. I didn't mention anything about the points you just made (Osama? WTF?).
300 is a story written for teenagers. I loved it, but sorry to call a spade a spade - it's a comic book written for teens. Ergo, simplistic. It is what it is.
Nobody was saying you're supposed to feel guilty about any heritage either. But the emotions evoked by the film do actually prove Jona's point. It's a very clever choice of material, and will make a lot of money.
As for your problem with so-called PC'ness, I couldn't give a flying. I'm not the one who mentioned it in the first place.
Quote:That's the tone virtually every movie takes these days.
Oh please. I haven't seen a single one that does.
Re: Review of 300 the movie - Robert Vermaat - 03-12-2007
Temper temper, everyone.
To each their own. If David feels pride when watching that movie, that's his right.
If Jim can't, that's his view. No need to get into each other's hair, people!
Personally I would have trouble identifying with people from a warrrior society (I can hardly can myself a warrior!) who lived 2500 years before my time. I'm a historian, I see far more differences than similarities. Are they my ancestors? Hardly. Are they my heritage. Without doubt. But to some extent, so is Xerxes.
But David, that remark about Persians and people of Color vs. European white males does not sit right with me. I've sent you a PM about it.
Re: Review of 300 the movie - FlaviusCrispus - 03-13-2007
Trabicus wrote:
Quote:Simplistic?
Victor Davis Hanson writes:
Quote:If critics think that 300 reduces and simplifies the meaning of Thermopylae into freedom versus tyranny, they should reread carefully ancient accounts and then blame Herodotus, Plutarch, and Diodorus — who long ago boasted that Greek freedom was on trial against Persian autocracy, free men in superior fashion dying for their liberty, their enslaved enemies being whipped to enslave others.
'Nuff said.
Re: Review of 300 the movie - Narukami - 03-13-2007
True enough, but what about the helots?
"...free men in superior fashion dying for their liberty, their enslaved enemies being whipped to enslave others."
Did the Immortals march into battle driven by the lash or by the esprit de corps of an elite fighting force?
We discussed the Hanson review (or pre-view) of The 300 in another thread here in the Forum and I still feel he is trying to make a comparison between what happened then and what is happening now in the Middle East.
As now the situation then was not simple black & white -- there were shades of gray.
Now, this is not a criticism of the film, it is following the dictates of the Graphic Novel genre, and it does so very well. (As I mentioned in another thread I thought the Immortals looked great, not historically accurate at all but evocative costumes all the same.) My concern is that so many will take what they see in the theatre as the literal truth of the matter. They will forget that this is simply a film of a comic book and not a history lesson. Members of this forum realize this, but we are not the average film goers (at least in terms of this film).
Yes, I enjoyed the film, thought my two hours were well spent.
No, I do not think this the best film ever made nor the best film that could be made about this event.
If Hanson wants to explain something to us, then tells us why the helots stayed and died with their Spartan masters.
Was their fear of the Spartans greater than their fear of the Persians, or of death?
Did they too have a sense of pride at being Greek? (Or did they even understand that concept?)
Or did they stay to prove to their Spartan overlords that even though slaves they were not cowards?
Perhaps the answer is impossible to know.
And now I will climb down off my soap box with apologies to all for pontificating over long.
:oops:
Narukami
Re: Review of 300 the movie - M.H. White - 03-13-2007
I personally don't think the film makes much in the way of a strong connection between the events of 480-479, and now. It says "freedom isn't free, but other than that, I think you have to stretch it quite a long way to get a strong comparison.
Also, Narukami, pointing to the elite unity of the Persian army, the Immortals, who came from the priveleged class, raised to "draw the bow and speak the truth," and saying that the bulk of the Persians who came to Greece didn't do so at the tip of the lash hardly works, if that is indeed what you meant. If not, nevermind.
I'd say the situation then was pretty black and white. The Persians brought war to Greece, to try to bring them under the domination of Persia. I know some people say that Xerxes thought he was making a preemptory strike at the Greeks so his heirs wouldn't be destroyed by them, but had they not attempted to subjugate Greece, who's to say the Greeks (or Macedonians) would have ever tried to conquer Persia?
And as for making the Persians/Easterners out to be monstrous, the whole film is kind of exaggerated. The heroes are exaggerated, and it only fits that the villains are as well. Its an artistic device, no intelligent person is going to walk out of the theater thinking that Easterners are subhuman. I don't personally see how the film could say they are subhuman anyway, the mortals excepted, the Persian soldiers themselves appear exactly what they were: men conscripted against their will, perhaps afraid of their bronze-clad adversary, but not evil.
Re: Review of 300 the movie - Come in Nighthawk - 03-14-2007
Quote:No, I do not think this the best film ever made nor the best film that could be made about this event. M.H. White
I agree, tho’ I must also add I was THOROUGHLY entertained. I was also aware of many “historical inaccuracies;â€
Re: Review of 300 the movie - Narukami - 03-14-2007
Greetings Marshal,
Quite right -- the film itself does not make the case for comparison of the events of 480 to those of today. However, I think Dr. Hanson is making that connection.
You are also correct that the Immortals were elite and their example (and motivation) does not apply to the entire Persian army. I was simply pointing out that, on the other hand, not everyone was there against their will nor motivated only by the lash.
And once again you are on target -- The 300 is exaggerated, which is of course part of the fun.
In thinking again about the film (and wanting to make sure I was not coming across like a PC-Nazi -- now there's a contradiction in terms) it occurred to me that perhaps it is more useful to think of The 300 as a kabuki play.
Back in the late 60's (1968 if I remember correctly) the Grand Kabuki of Japan toured the US to rave reviews. One of the plays they performed was Kumagai's Battlecamp. A great play first staged in 1752 it tells the story of a famous event from the Gempei Wars (1180-85) about a Genji General (Kumagai) who is presented with a dilemma: He has been ordered to kill the enemy prince Atsumori, however, his wife owes a debt of honor to the mother of Atsumori. To resolve this conflict between giri (duty) and ninjo (love) he captures Atsumori in battle but rather than take his head instead takes the head of his own son. Now, when his commander, General Yoshitsune and the Shogun's ministers come to view the head, Kumagai must show no emotion, after all this is supposed to be the head of an enemy. Likewise, both his wife and the mother of Atsumori (both of whom are present at the battlecamp) can not show any emotion of either grief or relief. Nor, for political reasons, can Yoshitsune reveal that he knows what Kumagai has done and the sacrifice he has made.
This is one of the great plays of the Kabuki Theatre and is popular because of the exaggeration that is the Hallmark of kabuki. And yet, there is subtlety here too, something I find is short supply in The 300 (though I will see the film again and look more closely).
It is perhaps more a comment on the times than on the play itself that during its US run in 1968 the US theatre critics wrote that the play was an obvious statement on America's involvement in Vietnam.
I think that if that same play were presented today, critics would say it was an obvious comment on our involvement in Iraq.
The giri-ninjo confilct is universal and finds application in all times and in all places.
Forgive me waxing over long, but I am now of the opinion that it is best to view The 300 as kabuki. No one looks to kabuki as a model of historical accuracy or as a history lesson. (The Geisha do study the onnagata but that is another issue.) One enjoys the kabuki for the exaggerations of both hero and villain, and for the impossible to resolve conflicts of giri - ninjo that these plays delight in setting up for the characters.
So, as kabuki, The 300 is great.
As a history lesson or comment on our times -- that depends entirely upon what the viewer brings with them into the theatre.
:wink:
Narukami
Re: Review of 300 the movie - Tarbicus - 03-17-2007
Posted by Newsbot.
http://www.livescience.com/history/0703 ... movie.html
Re: Review of 300 the movie - Narukami - 03-17-2007
Interesting article -- Thanks Tarbicus!
:wink:
Narukami
Re: Review of 300 the movie - Tarbicus - 03-17-2007
Thanks. I obviously haven't seen it yet, but I think one of the things that is really getting my back up about the recent lot of sword and sandal blockbusters is the fact that film makers have regressed in their depiction of the ancients, compared to similar films of the 1950's and 60's. Troy compared to Helen of Troy, and 300 compared to 300 Spartans (even Gladiator compared to FOTRE).
There is a suspicious whiff of a very dodgy and political message in 300, based on what people here have said and in reviews, but I'll wait to confirm that once I've seen it. When people say a film won't change or form someone's point of view, fine, but it can however have the ability to reinforce more extreme beliefs and prejudices. The reason for my suspicions is that the graphic novel seems to have been changed to include added material that has modern parallels in modern conflicts, but were never present in the comic or actual events.
Re: Review of 300 the movie - Robert Vermaat - 03-17-2007
Hear hear.