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Anyone know about these lanterns? - Printable Version

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Anyone know about these lanterns? - Franklin - 03-02-2007

Anyone familiar with these lanterns? All look similar, but clearly are not the exact same one. Was this a popular style then? Would the cylindrical pane have been difficult to produce?

[Image: Lantern1-max.jpg][Image: lanternbw.jpg][Image: lantern.jpg]

I'd also be interested to learn about any other enclosed/weatherproof ancient light sources.

Thanks!

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - Franklin - 03-02-2007

For 13 bucks plus shipping this has an amazingly similar look to it. Depending on how accurate you wanna be, this could either be used as-is or the basic components hacked off and reused to build a piece closer to the examples shown above. Either way it sure beats the hell outta starting from scratch.
[Image: starlantern.jpg]

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - Tib. Gabinius - 03-02-2007

Multiple of these were found in Pompeji, while the people tried to rescue themselves in the light of that lamps, while the ashes darkened the sky.

I'm not able to translate these sentences, so i write them in german, perhaps one of the better german to english translaters can help.

"Die Kerze brennt in einem Hornzylinder. Zur Erhöhung der Leuchtkraft zog man ihn hoch, bei Luftzug senkte man ihn ab."

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - mcbishop - 03-03-2007

Quote:Anyone familiar with these lanterns? All look similar, but clearly are not the exact same one. Was this a popular style then? Would the cylindrical pane have been difficult to produce?

The German translates roughly as 'the candle burns in a cylinder of horn. To increase brightness it was raised, in a draft it was lowered' and that tells the whole story. These were not transparent but rather translucent (a bit like pearl lightbulbs) since they were made with thin sheets of horn to form the side walls. I seem to recall watching a TV programme about making sheets of horn like this which probably involved soaking or some such, but there are others more gifted in the craft department than I who could fill you in on that. There is no evidence that glass was ever used in such a capacity.

There is a copper-alloy oil flask from Aldborough (North Yorshire) that depicts a bored negro slave boy sitting on top of one of these lanterns, usually presumed to be waiting for his master (at the baths?!) in order to escort him through the night.

Pieces of copper-alloy lanterns turn up all over the empire (I catalogued parts of one from Chesters on Hadrian's Wall only last year and there are published pieces from the Magdalensberg in Austria). Only the Bay of Naples sites seem to have produced intact ones, but that is hardly surprising.

Mike Bishop

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - gaiusseptimiuslucianus - 03-03-2007

Hello Folks,

I have seen thin horn panels for sale in recent years, maybe googling might turn some up. There have been lanterns with horn panels based on some found on the 16th c wreck of the Mary Rose for sale by some merchants. I believe they have been coming out of India. Perhaps this might be a product to run past Deepeeka as a possible items for development.

Cheers,

Lucianus

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - Magnus - 03-03-2007

Would a white kind of plastic sheet work instead of horn? Or would it be too hot? What about an opaque glass?

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - Martin Moser - 03-03-2007

Quote:I seem to recall watching a TV programme about making sheets of horn like this which probably involved soaking or some such, but there are others more gifted in the craft department than I who could fill you in on that

Details on this can be found in: MacGregor, Arthur. Bone, Antler, Ivory, and Horn: The Technology of Skeletal Materials since the Roman Period. London 1985.

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - Franklin - 03-03-2007

Quote:Details on this can be found in: MacGregor, Arthur. Bone, Antler, Ivory, and Horn: The Technology of Skeletal Materials since the Roman Period. London 1985.

Yikes! I searched the net far and wide and found two copies of this, one for $275 and one for $344! Couldn't even find a copy at any local libraries.

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - Franklin - 03-03-2007

Quote:The German translates roughly as 'the candle burns in a cylinder of horn. To increase brightness it was raised, in a draft it was lowered' and that tells the whole story.

So Mike, I'm still a bit confused. Would the horn have been affixed to the lid itself, so that it traveled up and down with the movement of the middle chain? Or would it have been fixed to the base and only the lid moves up and down independently, like taking the top off a jack-o-lantern. Just by looking at it the latter seems more likely, but I can't see that raising the lid would produce that much more light. Maybe if the inside curve of the lid was polished to reflect downward, but I have to imagine that it'd get blackened by soot the moment you lowered it back down again.

Also, would stripping the horn down into sheets even be necessary? Seems to me that horn tends to come in a cylindrical shape rather naturally. Smile

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - Viventius - 03-03-2007

Bone, Antler, Ivory and Horn: The Technology of Skeletal Materials Since the Roman Period by Arthur MacGregor was reprinted by Croom Helm in 2003, and is now being reprinted again. The UK price is £14.99, US $35.00. Check out http://www.oxbowbooks.com/ for details.

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - Franklin - 03-03-2007

Quote:Bone, Antler, Ivory and Horn: The Technology of Skeletal Materials Since the Roman Period by Arthur MacGregor was reprinted by Croom Helm in 2003, and is now being reprinted again. The UK price is £14.99, US $35.00. Check out http://www.oxbowbooks.com/ for details.

Ha! David Brown (stateside distributor for Oxbow) was one of the sources I searched initially. Maybe I misspelled the name or some such. Hot damn, thanks!

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - Franklin - 03-03-2007

Quote:I'm not able to translate these sentences, so i write them in german, perhaps one of the better german to english translaters can help.

"Die Kerze brennt in einem Hornzylinder. Zur Erhöhung der Leuchtkraft zog man ihn hoch, bei Luftzug senkte man ihn ab."

Tobias, where did this quote originally come from?

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - gaiusseptimiuslucianus - 03-03-2007

Quote:Would a white kind of plastic sheet work instead of horn? Or would it be too hot? What about an opaque glass?

Hi Magnus,

I would expect it would get too hot for plastic sheet. A candle flame throws surprisingly more heat than you might think, especially when it is enclosed. There are sheet glasses made that have a horn-like look so that might be an option but that glass is in sheets and not round like the original lanterns. Its not too hard to work horn and if you got a large pre-sanded horn you could basically cut off the length you need (so that you have a cylinder of horn), cut up the side to open it out into a sheet, soak it until it became pliable and then flatten it out so it fit the lantern. Fox Valley Leather has decent looking horns in their online store: http://www.foxvalleyleather.com/tannery ... dware.html I haven't bought from them though.

BTW, here is a horn paned lantern sold by Historic Enterprises: http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart ... p=216&c=38

I have one and I find that the brass get pretty hot. I doesn't give a huge amount of light either. Sad

Hope this is a help,

Lucianus

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - Robert Vermaat - 03-03-2007

More pictures:

[Image: lantern2.jpg]

Why not sheet glass? The Romans could and did make it.

Or something like this:
[Image: Mtemen%20KB%20verre%20T1.jpg]
[Image: Mtemen%20Tiscka.jpg]

Re: Anyone know about these lanterns? - Robert Vermaat - 03-03-2007

Replica
Brass with horn inset to let the candle light shine through:
www.bytheswordinc.com/acatalog/images/ah-6278.jpg
[Image: ah-6279.jpg]