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+--- Thread: annoying belt tongue (/showthread.php?tid=8272)
annoying belt tongue - Marcus Mummius - 02-01-2007
Salve,
I was wondering if the Romans used a system to keep the tongues from belts in place. Has there been found any proof for the use of a narrow band attached to the belt next to the buckle like on our modern belts?
Or are there any alternative methods that would be suitable for the Roman period?
Vale,
Re: annoying belt tongue - Magnus - 02-01-2007
I know in the early first century, or maybe the republican period the belt tongue was used almost as another apron strap....I know mine stays out of the way though because of my gladius sheath.
Re: annoying belt tongue - Primvs Pavlvs - 02-01-2007
I generally just wrap mine around the belt once its threasded thru the buckle.
Re: annoying belt tongue - Marcus Mummius - 02-01-2007
Both good solutions but I can't use them. There is no scabbard to put the tongue behind (it's a shoulderbelt)... The leather is too thick to wrap around the belt...
Would a little leather loop to keep the tongue in place be unauthentic?
Vale,
Re: annoying belt tongue - Magnus - 02-01-2007
I'm sure it'd be fine.
Re: annoying belt tongue - mcbishop - 02-02-2007
Quote:I was wondering if the Romans used a system to keep the tongues from belts in place. Has there been found any proof for the use of a narrow band attached to the belt next to the buckle like on our modern belts?
I assume by 'tongue' you mean excess belt material, as distinct from the buckle tongue.
The Rhineland tombstones clearly show that excess belt material was just allowed to hang free (sometimes with a terminal pendant). In fact, this may have been the origin of what developed into the 'apron'. There is detailed (verging on terminally boring) discussion of the 'apron' (and its origin) in this article (a PDF) which includes close-up drawings and photos of many examples. Here's Annaius Daverzus to show you his unfettered belt:
![[Image: 376947962_854ff60465.jpg]](http://farm1.static.flickr.com/163/376947962_854ff60465.jpg)
By the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD, when equipment started to change, belt excess got longer and started to be tucked in and looped over the belt and given a decorated terminal. Decorated terminals still turn up in Dominate equipment, so they were quite clearly diachronically happy to let it dangle... so to speak.
Mike Bishop
Re: annoying belt tongue - aitor iriarte - 02-02-2007
There are real metal 'loops' on chip-carved belt sets of the 370's. Anyway, as Mike states, Late Romans were happy and proud of having exceedingly long belt straps... 8)
You can see one of those in the Oudenburg belt set (Here, an acceptable reproduction by Raymond the Quiet. Belt at the top)
![[Image: P2140029copia.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tribunus/P2140029copia.jpg)
![[Image: cingulum.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tribunus/cingulum.jpg)
Aitor
Re: annoying belt tongue - Matt Lukes - 02-02-2007
From my own observations of artifacts, it seems that belts might have been rather thinner than many reproductions are; one plate I have with roves over which the rivest are peened suggests the belt was only about 2mm thick, and two others whose rivets are bent over to secure them suggest their belts were between 2 and 3mm thick.
In your case though Jef, I wouldn't consider a formal piece for securing the excess belt, but just use a leather thong or something- surely there was a soldier at some time who did something like this...
Re: annoying belt tongue - Marcus Mummius - 02-02-2007
Quote:In your case though Jef, I wouldn't consider a formal piece for securing the excess belt, but just use a leather thong or something- surely there was a soldier at some time who did something like this...
That is exactly what I just did Matt
wink:
Re: annoying belt tongue - M. Demetrius - 02-06-2007
If it's long enough, some folks use the "sword knot" or "knight's knot", which is basically just a half hitch around the belt, leaving the free end hanging down. I wonder about that on a shoulder belt, though. I like the leather thong idea. Makes sense. Can't have things getting in the way of your hands when you need them for fighting, eating, other important stuff.
belt end as a phallic symbol? - ursinius - 02-06-2007
I suspect the romans of phallic imagery with these belt ends hangig free, especially when the end of the tongue is a bit shaped like a ...glans, others may call it a leaf shaped..
Just to avert the evil eye!!
ursinius/Sebastiaan
LXG
Re: annoying belt tongue - M. Demetrius - 02-07-2007
Quote:Just to avert the evil eye!!Or attract the female eye?
evil women... - ursinius - 02-07-2007
Opinions may differ on whetherthis is different.... :lol:
TVS
Re: annoying belt tongue - M. Demetrius - 02-07-2007
Quote:Opinions may differ on whether this is different:? wink:
Re: annoying belt tongue - A_Volpe - 02-10-2007
I'd also suggest using a simple leather thong/tie to keep it down, if it's causing you aggrivation, or tuck the end under the belt, as has been suggested
Otherwise, what's wrong with letting that strap "hang out"? One more "dangly thing"!
You could also cut down the strap so it's not as long...?