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+--- Thread: Overhand stab (/showthread.php?tid=8081)
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Overhand stab - Conal - 01-16-2007
A sculptural mistake or a real technique?
Re: Overhand stab - M. Demetrius - 01-16-2007
Gladiators used that same angle, grip, and stroke for the killing blow of a fallen opponent. Sure as anything, since that blade will literally slice the heart in two. Unconsciousness would follow in seconds, death in a couple of minutes or so.
Why would that not be considered a proper grip for that attack?
Of course another approach would be a sidewards stroke at the side of the neck, or a straight stab at the cervical vertibra. Hey, if you can get behind your enemy, you can do just about whatever you want, right?
Re: Overhand stab - Felix - 01-16-2007
That blow works fine with a dagger. Given the angle of the elbow, the grip pretty much has to be an "ice-pick" (thumb near pommel) grip. A shortish sword could be used this way, but switching the grip on your sword in the middle of a fight would definitely slow you down, and could be awkward. I don't see why anyone would start a sword fight with their sword in a reverse grip, so my first suggestion is that this might be a dagger blow.
Re: Overhand stab - Mithras - 01-16-2007
I just want to know what he's got against hockey players??
hock:
Re: Overhand stab - Martin Wallgren - 01-16-2007
Quote:That blow works fine with a dagger. Given the angle of the elbow, the grip pretty much has to be an "ice-pick" (thumb near pommel) grip. A shortish sword could be used this way, but switching the grip on your sword in the middle of a fight would definitely slow you down, and could be awkward. I don't see why anyone would start a sword fight with their sword in a reverse grip, so my first suggestion is that this might be a dagger blow.
Er, well, no! At least with a onehandblade thats not longer than 3 feet. I´ve done it in sparring a hundred times or more.
Re: Overhand stab - Felix - 01-17-2007
Excuse me, Martin, but I don't understand.
What do you disagree with? Is it my thought on the hand position, or turning the sword around during a fight, or starting out with the sword in a "thumb on pommel" grip?
Re: Overhand stab - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-17-2007
perhaps he is finishing his opponent, after a lengthy fight, and the man is weak and down on his knees, giving the Roman the time to serve the coup-de-grace?
OK. I looked at the metope again! He's not on his knees. :oops:
But with a manica, perhaps the grip is easier, and once pushed past the arc of the falx, the best method? I know mine extends down my hand like that and is a little restricting, and interferes with the pommel in the normal grip........ just a thought!
Re: Overhand stab - M. Demetrius - 01-17-2007
Hold on, boys. Look. Go get your gladius. Hold it as if for stabbing or slashing in the normal manner. Now lift your arm so your hand is as high as your head. Pivot the handle and regrip, like spinning a baton. Easy, fast as can be if practiced. Try it a few times and see how easy it becomes.
Don't think the Romans didn't know simple grip changes on their primary weapon...you know they did!
It could still be artistic license, but odds are it's not.
Re: Overhand stab - Martin Wallgren - 01-17-2007
Quote:Excuse me, Martin, but I don't understand.
What do you disagree with? Is it my thought on the hand position, or turning the sword around during a fight, or starting out with the sword in a "thumb on pommel" grip?
Sorry, I was a litle bit hasty. I did of course mean the changing of the grip during a fight. I have during sparring changed my sword grip from thumb in the blade direction to thumb on pommel and also vice versa. Just as M. Demetrius explaine above.
Again im sorry if I sounded to blunt. (Happened a few times befor on this and other forums, could be a translingual thing, Swedish thoughts - english text, we tend to get to the core of the matter first and elaborate later.)
Re: Overhand stab - Peroni - 01-17-2007
Quote:That blow works fine with a dagger
It isn't his dagger. The sword is not depicted in the scabbard. It has to be his gladius.
I agree with Byron. It's the 'coup de gras'!
Re: Overhand stab - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 01-17-2007
This is a typical mercy killing in the same style and manner the Gladiators used..
Personally i think it is a wounded Dacian who is depicted, and the only reason his falx is still in his hands is to prove to the audience that he is a combattant...
M.VIB.M.
Re: Overhand stab - Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-17-2007
Dave said.......
"Hold on, boys. Look. Go get your gladius. "
8) 8) I did last night Dave, and while I not as adept as a Roman, I did find my manica was a little of a hinderence in normal grip, but mine is not too great a fit! So, yes, what you say is as likely as not! But then neither is my cheapo Gladius. Maybe a better pommel would be less interfering!
Thanks Peroni!
Re: Overhand stab - Matthew - 01-17-2007
A very similar pose, perhaps? (note the empty scabbard)
![[Image: 89.gif]](http://schnucks0.free.fr/Trajan/89.gif)
Re: Overhand stab - Crispvs - 01-17-2007
"so my first suggestion is that this might be a dagger blow"
No, one might use a dagger in that way but it not a dagger handle which is depicted. It is quite clearly a sword handle, which fits, as Peronis pointed out, with the empty scabbard. Actually, I am not aware of any evidence for the use of daggers by Roman soldiers in this period.
Crispvs
Re: Overhand stab - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 01-17-2007
It is a well proven method for instant death using the sword.
![[Image: gauls.gif]](http://www.gwctc.commnet.edu/artdept/arthis01/images/gauls.gif)
http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis/H ... uicide.jpg
M.VIB.M.