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+--- Thread: Greek Helmet Question (/showthread.php?tid=7957)
Greek Helmet Question - Dornicus - 01-06-2007
I know I've seen this design before, though I can't quite recall where. After consulting with the source I've learned the following: this design is based on the "Insular" style of helmet, even though the faceplate is Corinthian (believed to be a mistake on the part of the artist), supposedly worn by Aegean islanders, though the crests themselves were used to depict Trojans and their allies.
![[Image: md-Memnon.jpg]](http://petridish.net/pics/23893/md-Memnon.jpg)
Anyone recognize it? If any have pictures of reproductions (or any information at all on this helmet, really), I'd be most appreciative!
Re: Greek Helmet Question - hoplite14gr - 01-06-2007
Do you have the data of where the pottery is located and when it is dated?
It is supposed to represent a scene of the Trojan War but the troops are depicted as classical Greek Warriors.
Certain "ceremonial amphoras" were used like propaganda tools.
The side that the artist dislikes are represented as Trojans and the side he likes are depicted as Greeks.
One side is definetly Spartans and Tegeans as it appear from their shield
devices. Generals were depicted with double crests and probably wore them in real life.
Kind regards
Re: Greek Helmet Question - hoplite14gr - 01-06-2007
G.H.Chase must have seen it at the Princeton University then, because the shield emblems have been included in his book.
Now it is probably in some private collection, damn!
Tell me the title and ISBN of your book please Gioi.
Well the Chalkidians made the pot that was intented to commemorate the events of the battle of Hyssiai where the Spartans were defeated by the Argives, just before they recover at Thyrea.
Perhaps it was intented to go to Laconia through Perioikoi traders.
Can Dornicus tell us where he got the image?
That might help
Kind regards
Re: Greek Helmet Question - Dornicus - 01-07-2007
Stefanos,
The book is from the cover of "Memnon", a work of historical fiction by Scott Oden, who told me essentially the same things as Gioi has.
Re: Greek Helmet Question - Anonymous - 01-08-2007
But the helmet circled is not double-crested; rather, it is high-crested in the Insular fashion that Mike mentions. I'm not convinced the faceplate is Corinthian, Mike, it's hard to tell, in profile. However, Insular helmets existed which were very like Corinthians and I believe there is some evidence for Corinthians with high crests. I hope so, because I'm making one! You will see some examples here:-
www.hoplites.org
and here:-
www.4hoplites.com
Re: Greek Helmet Question - Dan Diffendale - 01-08-2007
Quote:But the helmet circled is not double-crestedBut it is... here's a drawing of the same vase, a Chalcidian black figure amphora, c. 550 BC, now lost.
Left to right, Thetis ("Neres"), Ajax, Achilles (dead on the ground), Sylphos(?), Paris, Aeneas, Leodophos(?), Epsippos(?).
Re: Greek Helmet Question - hoplite14gr - 01-08-2007
The high crest is often used used to denote rank as I have posted before.
Generals are described with more than one crest.
Gioi, the source and location of the pottery that shows the traverse crest if you please.
If it is 540 to 500 B.C. probably is related with the ousting of Lygdamis of Naxos by the Spartans.
The "scale cuirass" of the left figure is interesting.
Kind regards
Re: Greek Helmet Question - Anonymous - 01-09-2007
Quote:Oh! thanks Danno, I was goin to do the same.
BTW: Paul, maybe its more correctly call it....Double High Crested Helm?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/C ... edHelm.jpg [/img]
Ah, yes, I can see that in your more-detailed picture. Sorry, chaps. :oops:
Re: Greek Helmet Question - hoplite14gr - 01-10-2007
Thanks Gioi.
The second image is good-just solved an issue actually. (laudes)
But please the previous is more important in the issue.
When you find the image please tell me.
Kind regards
Re: Greek Helmet Question - Felix - 01-11-2007
The shield Ajax is carrying looks like the inside of a Boeotian shield, except the cutouts/scallops seem to be filled in. Any thoughts on what that is supposed to be?
Re: Greek Helmet Question - hoplite14gr - 01-12-2007
Can´t wait for the answer Gioi.
Interesting though to see an Archaic Figalian.
The "Italiotic's" sword should have been longer.
Felix, my first thought is artistic convention.
Kind regards
Re: Greek Helmet Question - hoplite14gr - 01-13-2007
It is what I expected.
Thanks and sorry for the inconveniance.
It shows Menelaos as classical era Spartan king with a traverse crest.
The "Trojan" carries the emblem of Naxos so it relates to the ousting of Lygdamis.
Thanks and laudes.