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+--- Thread: Who,why,what and how? (/showthread.php?tid=7519)
Who,why,what and how? - varistus - 11-24-2006
Who were the Romans really? What did they really look like? Why were they so successful? How did they conquer so much with so little a populous?
These questions bother me and my attempts to answer and research them.
I looked at many posts and it seems like I cannot find any easy answers. When I toured Pompeii and Rome I studied much but not understanding Latin or Italian left me many questions.
Looking at paintings I came across conclusions not reached here: The Romans had a certain look and genetic characteristic I have not seen in any European. 1. They were very muscular looking in a way that certain African tribes look.(I am not saying they look African,just their body types)2. They looked like they had a huge variety in hair, skin tones.
3.They looked shorter than say the average American(not saying they did not look fierce,they did)
4. Very few had attractive facial features!
Many paintings I came across. Questions I asked over there about these things were never answered without be in a riddle.
It seems like no one really asked these questions before?
So, if you look at paintings to speculate you may conclude why they were successful. Their body types were amazingly strong and tough looking in a way that looked genetically different. They also tried in a vane attempt to make their appearances better by many strange grooming practices, obvious in many paintings. So, they probably were greatly interested in other peoples who were perhaps more attractive to the Romans.(for slaves,etc.) The Romans were so fixated on appearances that they must have been crushed to find out they were not an attractive group compared to others. So why not mix in with others? That is how they could expand their armies and the only way a small city state could have done what they have done.
My conclusions are speculative and based on just what paintings say, better than a thousand words, perhaps.
Of course there were many other reasons for Roman expansion, just thought it would be interesting to get another perspective.
Re: Who,why,what and how? - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 11-24-2006
eeeerm.......
M.VIB.M.
Re: Who,why,what and how? - Robert Vermaat - 11-24-2006
Hi Ralph,
First of all, enter your real name into your signature. That's NOT a request. It's a rule here, and I asked you before. :x
Second, your question seems flawed. Or, you already answer your own question.
Of course you can’t ask what ‘the Romans’ looked like – they were a mix of tribes and peoples. Who are ‘your’ Romans? The citizens of Rome? The inhabitants of Pompeii? The inhabitants of Italy? Britain? And during what period – 200 BC or 250 AD? You see, there is no simple answer to such a general question.
Muscular? I suppose that was different from person to person. Please clarify (and I sincerely hope you are not going to suggest that all the ‘Romans’ were an African tribe!).
A huge variety in hair/skin tones – but of course! They came from all over the known world and beyond that.
Shorter than the modern American – sure, that’s what modern food does for you.
No attractive faces? That’s just a matter of personal opinion, I guess. Compared to what, I might ask? Hadrian and many other emperor (but I could mention many lesser folks) can outshine their modern counterparts by miles! Your remarks about them being fixated by their own ugliness is a bit silly. They were not.
Why were these questions not asked before? Because, like I said, can’t ask them that way, generalising as if ‘The Romans’ were one, separate, ethnic group. They were not. And hence your question does not apply.
But I must say that I have never before encountered the proposal that the real reason for Roman expansion across the known world was their fixation on being so damn’ ugly.
Re: Who,why,what and how? - Tarbicus - 11-24-2006
Quote:But I must say that I have never before encountered the proposal that the real reason for Roman expansion across the known world was their fixation on being so damn’ ugly.
It does help making the impression more authentic just that little bit easier, though.
Re: Who,why,what and how? - Robert Vermaat - 11-24-2006
![[Image: hadrian.jpg]](http://www.vroma.org/images/raia_images/hadrian.jpg)
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGLY!
Re: Who,why,what and how? - Robert Vermaat - 11-24-2006
![[Image: Augustus-Priest_detail(after-12BC)Medium.jpg]](http://www.beloit.edu/~classics/main/courses/history222/augustus/Augustus-Priest_detail(after-12BC)Medium.jpg)
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGLY!
Re: Who,why,what and how? - hansvl - 11-24-2006
Quote:
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGLY!
In this picture his nose looks a lot like Michael Jackson's present nose
Hans
Re: Who,why,what and how? - S SEVERUS - 11-24-2006
Quote:The Romans were so fixated on appearances that they must have been crushed to find out they were not an attractive group compared to others. So why not mix in with others? That is how they could expand their armies and the only way a small city state could have done what they have done.
hock: hock: hock: hock: hock: hock: hock: Hilarious.
Re: Who,why,what and how? - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 11-24-2006
![[Image: RomanFaces.jpg]](http://freestockphotos.com/ROME1/RomanFaces.jpg)
![[Image: fayum-roman-girl.jpg]](http://www.unf.edu/classes/freshmancore/core1images/fayum-roman-girl.jpg)
![[Image: augustuspontifex.jpg]](http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/augustuspontifex.jpg)
They were so UGLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Re: Who,why,what and how? - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 11-24-2006
what an ugly difference when compared with these!
![[Image: Celtfan_WarriorCeltWar.jpg]](http://www.slitherine.com/Legion/Images/Celtfan_WarriorCeltWar.jpg)
![[Image: Speranza-Celt%20Warrior.jpg]](http://www.ugopozzati.it/images/Speranza-Celt%20Warrior.jpg)
![[Image: celt.jpg]](http://history.missouristate.edu/phialphatheta/images/celt.jpg)
Re: Who,why,what and how? - Titus Martius - 11-24-2006
![[Image: mport73.jpg]](http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/mport73.jpg)
Not all were ugly....It was same as today.
Re: Who,why,what and how? - Cornelius Quintus - 11-24-2006
Ave varistus anonymus,
Who,why,what and how?
Just they, therefore, that and such.
No need of mutants, alien genetic theories or thoughts about werewolves-DNA (even if the famous wolf and children statue might also suggest that).
Seems the US-television keeps the public far, far away from real life...
Please excuse that I'm kidding a little bit.
However, ancient people were different to us, because their life was very different. Somewhere around in this forum was a nice (and serious) thread about the differences between today's Roman re-enactors and real ancient Roman soldiers, which listed a lot of interesting points (someone is able to dig it out ?)
Were the Romans any uglier than folks today... - Mark Headlee - 11-24-2006
I am not as eloquent as some members of the RAT so please forgive me....
I do agree, the Romans were from a different time, different culture, different climate, but they share similarities with all people.
Romans lived daily lives filled with all the same stress, drama, and joy we all do. All people have this same common experience. Romans enjoyed a good meal, a good glass of wine, good friendship. Romans enjoyed the company of a loving mate, a comfortable home, a fire in the hearth. Romans loved their children, played with their grandchildren, and all died in the end...Romans other than customs, were no different than us..
They to also had their standards of "beauty", much as we do today. Romans had their "ugly" people as we do today, but that standard of vanity does not make the Roman any less of a human or lower their contribution to our Western Society. I'm sure the Roman had "hot chicks" and "hunks"....no different than today
In fact we owe a great deal to the Romans. Our systems of Government, medicine, religion, and various aspects of culture can trace their roots to Ancient Rome. Trust me, I am a nursing student and all I "thank" the Romans for all the Latin terms I have had to learn.
So what do we owe the Romans..well if you are a part of the western world (Europe, America, Latin America, ect...) We owe them EVERYTHING!!!
Just my .02
Just paintings - varistus - 11-24-2006
I did not quote any facts here just possibilities to make people think out 'out of the box'. I am possessed my American TV to a degree of course but I am just offering questions, that is all. Do I still think the Romans as a whole were not an attractive 'tribe', yes. Of course there were exceptions. Did they influence the western world,of course. All American capitol buildings are modeled after thus, legal system and units of measurements, etc.,etc. I am not trying to insult just trying to have conclusions from hundreds of paintings. Look for yourself over there.
Suggesting that the Romans were African , no, but it seems they did not originate in Europe by just a 'superficial' study of a quantity of paintings. I read theories that they originated from Troy or wherever , but not proved. They just do not look anything like modern Europeans from anywhere in Europe, as a whole. Why is that?
Re: Were the Romans any uglier than folks today... - Ioannis - 11-24-2006
Quote:In fact we owe a great deal to the Romans. Our systems of Government, medicine, religion, and various aspects of culture can trace their roots to Ancient Rome. Trust me, I am a nursing student and all I "thank" the Romans for all the Latin terms I have had to learn.
So what do we owe the Romans..well if you are a part of the western world (Europe, America, Latin America, ect...) We owe them EVERYTHING!!!
Do you confuse the Romans with the Greeks??? :o