298? - Printable Version +- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat) +-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4) +--- Forum: Greek Military History & Archaeology (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=9) +--- Thread: 298? (/showthread.php?tid=7006) |
298? - spartacus-033 - 10-04-2006 I have read that only 298 spartans died at Thermopylae not 300. That there were two survivors, but I have been unable to find this anywhere else. Dose anyone know if this in fact true or not? Re: 298? - Come in Nighthawk - 10-04-2006 Well, in the MOVIE version from the 50s, IIRC, one youngster was sent off by Leonides to "Go tell the Spartans... here we stand obedient to their orders;" but I have always taken that as artistic license. As I try to impress upon my students, you may take useful imagery from Jollywood, but its not wise to get your history there!!!!!! I know of no source that says that there were any “survivors†Re: 298? - spartacus-033 - 10-04-2006 No this was in a book called "The Greeks at Was". Two of the spartans were sent away after the first or second day of fighting because of sever eye infections. When they heard of what was happening on the third day the two had an argument about what to do. One said they should fallow orders and stay, while the other wanted to go back and fight. they spilt up and theone who went back was killed, and the other fallowed his orders and stayed put. Thats one suvivor. The other was sent as a messenger and didn't return in time to fight on the third day. So thats two survivors Re: 298? - Jona Lendering - 10-04-2006 It is always hard to say what is a historical fact, but Herodotus 7.229 mentions two soldiers who were suffering from ophthalmia and were absent when the Spartans were cut off. Eurytus went to the battle and was killed; Aristodemus returned to Sparta. In 7.232, a messenger named Pantitas is mentioned who survived. Re: 298? - spartacus-033 - 10-04-2006 it also says that they where labeled as "tremblers" Re: 298? - Avatar - 10-04-2006 Maybe there were survivors. And if Hollywood actually did do research enough to discover that, well, more kudos to them. Maybe the "tremblers" label mean they were cowards? Not that that's likely with spartans, but perhaps they fell short of Leonidas's standards. Re: 298? - Come in Nighthawk - 10-04-2006 Well, Herodotus... that’s good enough for me!! He mentions names, and gives perfectly logical explanations. Now, Otoh, I'm not sure as I said above that "I" would classify someone a "survivor" who didn’t fight on the third day. After all, in some accounts there was a messenger sent out of the Alamo with Lt. Col. William Barret Travis' last dispatches who couldn’t get back in time for the final assault; he is not usually counted as a "survivor." Whereas Susanna Dickinson, the wife of an officer and one of two dozen surviving women and children, as well as Jim Bowie's slave Sam and Lt. Col. Travis' slave Joe, all found in the Alamo after the battle by the Mexican Army and let go, are... IYGMD. But, I guess that is a case of semantics, and others are more comfortable calling the two of Herodotus’ of his three named individuals “survivors.†party pooper - Goffredo - 10-04-2006 I still remember my reaction to reading, when I was around 12, that the spartans were not alone and that the thespians sacrificed themselves too. I felt betrayed x It seemed to me the spartans robbed the show! Now this thread on the two suvivours... :roll: Well it kind of rubs me the wrong way :wink: What about the thespians!! They too were heroes The spartans hock: were the tough guys, the born-to-be-warriors, the fearless and/or mad to face certain defeat. The thespians could have easily left. They didn't :!: Re: 298? - hoplite14gr - 10-04-2006 One guy with eye infection was sent by Leonidas back and he was killed in Platea. There was no official fault found on him by the Ephors but he possibly couldn't stand the" accusing looks" of the relatives of those who died. There are modern war veterans who feel they had survived unjustly while their comraids were killed. Pantitas "messenger" in "enemy sympathsing" even trasonous Thessaly :!: Seems more like secret mission of the dreaded Krypteia. Whom did he wacked ? Spartans wouln't like to tell Herodotus details Iguess. Jeff I agree with about the Thespians. Paul allen woud agrre too. In Greece though there is alos a monument for them in Thermopylae! Kind regards Re: 298? - Anonymous - 10-04-2006 There are probably many variations on the tale. I read that one of the Ophthalmia sufferers committed suicide, after his return to Sparta and the other, having been treated like a coward, demonstrated such desperate courage at Plataea that he was reprimanded for his recklessness! Such a "Catch 22" has the ring of truth to it. As Stefanos rightly says, I do agree about the Thespians. Re: 298? - Jona Lendering - 10-04-2006 Quote:I read that one of the Ophthalmia sufferers committed suicide, after his return to Sparta and the other, having been treated like a coward, demonstrated such desperate courage at Plataea that he was reprimanded for his recklessness!The last is correct, but the man who committed suicide was not one of those suffering from bad eyesight. The man who killed himself was the messenger to Thessaly. Krypteia, as Stefanos suggests, sounds plausible. Quote:Two of these three hundred, it is said, namely Eurystos and Re: 298? - spartacus-033 - 10-04-2006 thanks guys you've helped alot, and I didn't mean survivors really. just that there were spartans who fought at Thermopylae and didn't die there. Re: 298? - Come in Nighthawk - 10-04-2006 Quote:thanks guys you've helped alot, and I didn't mean survivors really. just that there were spartans who fought at Thermopylae and didn't die there.Roger, understand now. Sorry if I got too pedantic. I guess the issues I am having right now with a thesis student's lack of clarity in his writing rubbed off on my "attitude!" :lol: Sincere apologies. And really, an interesting thread!!! Seriously! Re: 298? - Avatar - 12-18-2006 Sorry for the threadomancy, but I found this on Wikipedia, in the entry on Leonidas: Quote:On a sidenote two of the Spartans who were present at Thermopylae survived the conflict on the third day. One who suffered an eye injury was sent behind the lines and was taken back to Sparta with the retreating allies. He later killed himself for being considered a coward by his people. The other was killed charging the persians at Plataea 479B.C |