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Question: Soldiers tunic at the time of Trajan - Martin Wallgren - 08-14-2006
What style should you guys recomend for an impression of a Aux. soldier at this time?
Just need som hints or links please. I have searched thru many topics here but not realy find a satifactory answer. Just need to know what would be acceptable in most groups.
Thanks in advance!
Martin
Re: Question: Soldiers tunic at the time of Trajan - Tib. Gabinius - 08-14-2006
It shouldnt be the question what most accept, more what would be more "authentic"
If you want to reenact an auxilia, you should know from "where" the men of it came and where they were placed, cause the auxilia show a bit of their own stile, in choice of the material like the style of the clothes.
For example the celtic and germanic troops had more clothes to get clear with the weather than the augusteian and tiberian romans, who had to addapt it step by step.
If you take a look on the trajans column, you ll see some auxilia cube men, just with "braccae" (trousers), shields and cubes, perhaps not auxilia, more numerii, but that show what is ment.
Different men, the fundatores, were shown in tunic and sagum.
Also we know about some sagitarii auxilia, that they worn their very long tunics (like the "kaftan")....
Re: Question: Soldiers tunic at the time of Trajan - Martin Wallgren - 08-14-2006
Ah!
I was unclear sorry!
The figure that is my inspiration is one of the mounted auxilliae on the trajan column.
It is seen in this tread on this forum
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic ... highlight=
Cavalry Tunics. - Graham Sumner - 08-14-2006
Hello Martin
Have you read some of my thoughts on Auxiliary Cavalry tunics in other posts?
In case you have not, have you noticed how short the tunics are for both Auxiliary foot and horse. It would appear their tunics are far shorter than those used by the Legionaries and other Auxiliaries on earlier monuments and without the bracae would be daring to say the least! ( It would also appear that long sleeved tunics were more common for first century cavalry than even I had previously supposed.)
It could be a change in fashion accurately portrayed by the sculptors after all the Legionaries too wear a slightly different tunic straighter with less folds than many earlier styles. On the other hand the sculptor could be making a statement that these are non citizen soldiers who do not dress like our boys. Coulston argues that the archers in the long flowing robes follow this convention, as on provincial monuments archers are dressed like everyone else.
I have discussed the Mons Claudianus tunic previously which although probably classed as an tunic belonging to an older child is of ideal proportions for an Auxiliary tunic as shown on the Column. (Of interest is the fact that Mons Claudianus had an Auxiliary part mounted unit based there). For what it is worth my reconstruction was worn by one of the cavalry riders with The Ermine Street Guard who said it was far more comfortable than the standard 'T' shape he normally wore.
Now do not ask me about what colour it should be or I will get into trouble!
Graham.
Re: Question: Soldiers tunic at the time of Trajan - Tib. Gabinius - 08-14-2006
Ok, than, in case of a cavallery aux. i would personally prefer:
short tunic (+under tunic), feminalia (3/4 trousers, enforced linen or eventually leather), calcei (closed both), focale for clothes.
If you want to reenact a celtic auxiliar you can think about a torque as "accesoir".
Weapons: a lorica hamata with triangles at the endings, lancea or hasta, a simple cav. helmet (not a mask helmet, except you want a high ranking or parading soldier), spatha and parma, the oval shield not the round parma equestrian.
Re: Question: Soldiers tunic at the time of Trajan - Peroni - 08-14-2006
Quote:a lorica hamata with triangles
It appears that the only reference we have for 'dagged' mail shirts are the Columns. No archaeological examples of this pattern have been found.
A regular straight-hemmed shirt is fine.
As for the appearance of the auxlilia of Trajan; In the year 99 AD, Trajan brought his Equites Singulari Augusti to Rome. He ensured that when they entered the city, they looked as 'Roman' as possible. They wore short-sleeved tunics and knee-length feminalia. This suggests that when in the field, the soldiers preferred or reverted to a more 'national' dress. i.e. long trousers and long sleeved tunics.
Long-sleeved tunics, some with turned-back cuffs can be seen being worn by a few cavalrymen on their tombstones.
Re: Question: Soldiers tunic at the time of Trajan - Martin Wallgren - 08-14-2006
Many thanx guys!
The Bracea and the Mail is already finished. (with dagged edges and brass rings in the finishing rows 8) ) With underpants the same length as the B. No boots yet, btw should these be with open or closed toes? Got a undertunic that is sleeveless and short, because of the weather here can be as bad as any. It´s made of linnen. I have also started on a pattern for those strange socks mensioned in Osprey Pretorians. My subarmalis is also finished and it is taylored to fit snuggly under the mail.
Should the shield be flat or dished although oval? And would the plate around the boss be square or round?
Martin
Re: Question: Soldiers tunic at the time of Trajan - Tib. Gabinius - 08-14-2006
Thtas incorrect, also the Marc Aurel Coulmn show the loricae hamata with triangles.
The Number of complete "shirts", showing us the ending isnt big enough, what we ve are the foundings of Dura which had brass rings at the endings, a good kind to show a difference.
The grave stele of Sertorius Firmus show a squamata with rounded strips at the end.
There are many more indicators, that the endings of the loricae shows different styles, thats we can use Trajans & Marc Aurels column in this case at least as a trustable sources.
But you re right, like i said before, its not a "must" but its a very good sign.
Re: Question: Soldiers tunic at the time of Trajan - Tib. Gabinius - 08-14-2006
Quote:Should the shield be flat or dished although oval? And would the plate around the boss be square or round?Thats a never ending discussing... Some say flat, some say dished.
Martin
A friend of mine who does cavalery already means, that the dished are very comfortable, while the flat hurt a bit. But Junkelmann did his ride with flat.
I ve seen a picutre of Peroni mounted, perhaps he can tell you something first hand of his experience about that.
I personally would prefer flat, but i dont ride
Re: Question: Soldiers tunic at the time of Trajan - Peroni - 08-14-2006
Quote:No boots yet, btw should these be with open or closed toes?
Either pattern is correct. I sometimes wear caligae, but mostly I wear a closed calceus as I find them more comfortable.
Quote:I ve seen a picture of Peroni mounted, perhaps he can tell you something first hand of his experience about that.
I have never ridden with a dished shield, only flat. It isn't uncomfortable at all. My cavalry shield has straps fitted to the rear face to assist with support whilst riding. The longest strap goes around the shoulders. They can also be used to sling the shield over the horns of the saddle when dismounted.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... CF1830.jpg
For the shield boss, I would go for a round plate, not square. Most depictions show round.
boots - Graham Sumner - 08-14-2006
You could also try the Vindolanda 'fell' boot type, with or without socks!
Trajan's Column still shows the traditional Caligae even worn by the supposedly non Roman looking Auxilia. I guess the artist got that wrong as well! :wink:
Graham.
Re: Question: Soldiers tunic at the time of Trajan - Tib. Gabinius - 08-15-2006
Thank you for your corrections of my spelling Peroni
Its quite sad how bad my english is.Quote:For the shield boss, I would go for a round plate, not square. Most depictions show round.I agree absolutly.
@ Graham: That belongs to the "the trajan shows mostly old fashion" discussion, which, i believe to remember, also had a place in this forum.
Re: Question: Soldiers tunic at the time of Trajan - Tarbicus - 08-15-2006
Don't forget the goodl old Imagebase:
Infantry
Re: Question: Soldiers tunic at the time of Trajan - Marcus Julius - 08-30-2006
Quote:.... My cavalry shield has straps fitted to the rear face to assist with support whilst riding. The longest strap goes around the shoulders. They can also be used to sling the shield over the horns of the saddle when dismounted.
I could be completely wrong here and drifting off-topic, but aren't saddle horns way modern?
Re: Question: Soldiers tunic at the time of Trajan - Praefectusclassis - 08-30-2006
Quote:but aren't saddle horns way modernNope, not the Roman ones. You can even see them on some tombstones. Have a good look at the detail views on Titus Flavius Bassus' tombstone.