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+--- Thread: Dura Europos Scutum (/showthread.php?tid=6361)
Dura Europos Scutum - Felix - 08-01-2006
The Dura Europos scutum is renowned for the decoration on its surface, but I am a bit puzzled about its construction. Bishop and Coulston are quite clear that it is constructed of 3 layers of wooden strips, glued at right angles to each other. This is the same as the Fayum shield - no problem.
The layers are 15 to 20 mm thick EACH; the overall thickness of the shield is about 50 mm. (For the non-metric, this is a two-inch thick shield).
This is by far the thickest shield I am aware of, ever. It most certainly wasn't made this thick as a "parade" item. I don't think the measurements are typographical errors, as the same values show up in the first edition and in Southern and Dixon as well. The only reason I can think of, off hand, for such a thick shield is as a siege implement, to protect against intense close range archery or even the odd ballista bolt.
Any opinions would be welcome.
Re: Dura Europos Scutum - Finlandese - 08-02-2006
I doubt, such shield would weight 20 to 25 kg. You can't handle such monster.
Ilpo
Re: Dura Europos Scutum - Peroni - 08-02-2006
I think there has been a misprint somewhere! It should read 1.5 to 2.0mm making a shield board of 6.0mm with the added fabric and hide covering it should be about 9.0mm thick in total.
You can see from this photograph of the shield that it isn't anywhere near 50.0mm thick!
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... Scutum.jpg
Re: Dura Europos Scutum - D B Campbell - 08-02-2006
This has cropped up in a previous thread (scroll down on p.2).
Apparently, the error (which was glibly copied by Stephenson and Dixon in their respective books) was corrected in B&C II.
Can anyone confirm? (As you will gather, I have not yet shelled out for said item.)
Dura Shield - claudia crisis - 08-02-2006
Would suggest layers around 3mm, or slightly less if possible, as in Fayum & Doncaster egs.
Verticals from hard wood (oak) for ridgidity.
Horizontals from more flexible wood to get curvature.
Overall would then be around 1 cm, although covering would add a little more.
Hilary
Re: Dura Europos Scutum - Vlad the Impala - 08-02-2006
Quote:made of thin strips of plane wood (platanus orientalis)) between 30mm and 80mm wide and 1.5mm and 2mm thick
from
excavations at duro-europas -simon james
Re: Dura Europos Scutum - Commilito - 08-02-2006
well, if it was that thick, might it have been made heavier than the others for use in counter-sieges?
Dura Europos was under siege quite a bit, and a large, heavy shield like that would have been useful for a stationary soldier on the walls.
just my two cents
Re: Dura Europos Scutum - Felix - 08-02-2006
Quote:This has cropped up in a previous thread (scroll down on p.2).
Apparently, the error (which was glibly copied by Stephenson and Dixon in their respective books) was corrected in B&C II.
Can anyone confirm? (As you will gather, I have not yet shelled out for said item.)
Well, I have the 2nd edition, and it looks the same - otherwise I would have just thought it a silly typo. (Like the Mars mission, where the conversion from metric to English units didn't happen). I thank you for finding it, though, as a thinnish scutum of 5 mm makes more sense than a monster of 50 mm.
Re: Dura Europos Scutum - D B Campbell - 08-03-2006
Quote:I have the 2nd edition, and it looks the same.
Perhaps next time Mike pops in to RAT, he'll add it to his corrections page.
Re: Dura Europos Scutum - mcbishop - 08-05-2006
Quote:Felix:1d4p0kf7 Wrote:I have the 2nd edition, and it looks the same.
Perhaps next time Mike pops in to RAT, he'll add it to his corrections page.
Back in the frozen north, it is now done. This came about because in ed.1 the imperial measurements (which we took out in ed.2) were correct, the metric wrong (decimal point in wrong place). It is even marked in pencil in my ed.1 for correction (oops!).
Mike Bishop
Re: Dura Europos Scutum - Iosephus - 08-05-2006
one more question:
overall thickness means the thickness of the whole shield (wood+linen+leather) or the layers of wood only?
Ok, first it seems a stupid question, but if you look at this
http://www.ourpasthistory.com/dereleth/ ... e_4/60.htm
it says that the gap between the two sides of the scutum binding is 5 mm.
I think it can suggest three things (in case the outer surface of the scutum was covered with leather):
- if the scutum binding goes over the leather, then the whole scutum "sandwich" is 5 mm thick, and you have to subtract the leather's thickness from the wood (which means 3-4 mm thick wood only)
- or the scutum binding goes under the leather, and is not to be seen normally
- or the leather doesn't cover the whole outer surface of the shield, but ends at the binding's edges.
all three possibilities seems very weird to me.
And yes I know the dura scutum had rawhide edging.
Re: Dura Europos Scutum - Peroni - 08-05-2006
The shield board is less thick at its edges. 9mm at the centre and approximately 5-6mm at the edges.
Re: Dura Europos Scutum - Iosephus - 08-06-2006
Oh, that is another possibility. I thought difference in material thickness was only typical for the flat shields, not the curved ones!
Thanks!
Re: Dura Europos Scutum - Flavius Promotus - 08-06-2006
The thickness of the dished oval shields from Dura-Europos also decreases towards the edges (from ca. 9 mm to 4-5 or maybe even 3 mm???). Can someone look this up? [I do not have the King Jame's Bible with me
]
Re: Dura Europos Scutum - Tarbicus - 08-06-2006
Item 617, oval wooden plank shield (the Amazon shield) is 7mm at the centre, thinning to 3mm at the edges.
619 is 8mm at the centre, thins to 6mm close to the edge, then rapidly goes to 3-4mm at the edge.
I can't find reference to any being dished, though?