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+--- Thread: Rome vs Japan (/showthread.php?tid=6276)
Re: Rome vs Japan - Magnus - 08-09-2006
"Quote:
getting rid of the legionary shield is a piece of cake for the samurai, since his battle tactics consist of moving around very fast....... not being hampered by a heavy shield at all......"
"Does he spin like the Tasmanian Devil and blow the scutum away?"
Ok, you deserve a laudes for that Tarbi, considering that's easily the funniest thing I've read (thanks to the mental image) in weeks.
LMFAO!!!!
Re: Rome vs Japan - Magnus - 08-09-2006
Virilis said: "One thing. Legionary is physically stronger than samurai. Look at the japanese people and compare their muscle mass to th europeans."
Were 1st Century Italians or anywone else we're using as our example of a Legionary that much bigger or stronger than the japanese? Are there any studies which have rated feudal japanese men's strength in some way? That's a tough one to figure out without any scientific evidence.
Tarbi..."What happened to the glued layer of linen to bind the plywood, a possible layer of felt, and then a layer of rawhide on top?"
The scutum he made had linen glued on both the front and back, IIRC, as well as a brass rim. There's pictures of the demo and a movie I think floating around...I think there are links to it on Matt Amt's site. Plus there are written historical references to the falx cleaving scuta...the naginata will have more speed and weight behind it, thus giving it more power. Same with the nagamaki.
EDIT: here are some pics:
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/falxcut1.jpg
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/soup.jpg
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/falxcut3.jpg (I'm in the backround here, far left with the camera up to my face
)"Exactly. Legionary throws down scutum taking samurai's weapon with it, and launches at the samurai with gladius already in hand, no need to draw another weapon. And if the samurai was allowed to use his spear then the legionary was allowed to use his pilum to start with, which in practice has a far longer reach than the handheld spear, and against an unshielded opponent. "
First, one component of samurai training that they practiced daily was fast draw and cutting, or Iai. I think unless they were right on top of each other, the samurai could at the very least get one of his sidearms drawn.
However, if they were close, and it came to grappling, did the legionary have any of these skills?
I wasn't ignoring the legionary's training, but it should be noted that the samurai had a larger variety of it, at least from what we know, and trained from a much earlier age.
But you also bring up a good point about the katana quality during the warring states period. Most of those swords were mass produced, making them less in quality than ones we see today considered to be "art swords". However, this doesn't mean the steel was in anyway lacking in quality, time can be saved by simple polishes, fittings and what not.
I think regardless of army/era/culture there were examples of some blades doing very well throughout the course of it's service life, and others breaking in one battle. Depends on all the variables.
The one thing you can say for sure is that the katana probably held a better cutting edge than it's roman counterpart, simply due to the type of steel being used. That can mean the difference between a shallow and a deep flesh wound.
I think that if you compare both warriors, the samurai has an advantage in each area. Thus statistically on paper he'll come out on top more.
Re: Rome vs Japan - Tarbicus - 08-09-2006
Quote:The scutum he made had linen glued on both the front and back, IIRC, as well as a brass rim.Crap scutum. I wouldn't wanna block a breadknife with it :wink:
Re: Rome vs Japan - Magnus - 08-09-2006
Hahahahahaha!
Re: Rome vs Japan - Virilis - 08-09-2006
Okay, how about a samurai against a GLADIATOR? If samurai was the expert in fighting techniques so was a gladiator! Gladiator must know all the pancration dirty tricks and he would be very strong if he gets near the samurai (and stronger, I won`t back on this issue). Of course gladiators fighting/weapons were highly ritualized due to the ancient rules but still?
By the way, a zulu warrior beats the crap out of both of them and also takes their women :wink: ...
Re: Rome vs Japan - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 08-09-2006
chop chop............. head ' s away!!!!!!!
the gladiators of course... however it wouldnt be much of a spectacle for the audience..........
someone should add a poll to this discussion!
M.VIB.M.
Re: Rome vs Japan - tlclark - 08-09-2006
Quote:But the samurai makes a swift and heavy slash at the scutum. He is horrfied!! He can't pull it from the scutum! It's stuck! The legionary drops his scutum and launches at the disarmed samurai.
Maybe
Dang! Now I want to see this in film!! It sounds like a heckuva fight.
So the tactic of the legionaire is to get him in close. That means to counteract it the samurai has to keep moving back, or steping to the side.
This could wind up like the Tyson/Bonecrusher Smith fight, where Smith lived in vital fear of tyson's right and kept dancing around to his left. It was terminally boring after the first five minutes but it went on like that for 15 rounds!
Travis
Re: Rome vs Japan - tlclark - 08-09-2006
Quote:*begin thread derail* [url:2nyaa4i5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eresva5S21Q[/url] *end thread derail*
Now back to the very serious discussion going on here!
Well there's no doubt that the legionaire would kick their collective a**es.
On a side note. I love medieval and feudal japaneses culture, but after watching japanese television...
What the heck happened to Japan!
Travis
Re: Rome vs Japan - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 08-09-2006
eeh....... the outcome of the war changed everything?
as for the legionary coming in close...... people tend to forget the amount of concealed weaponry a samurai generally had with him for close quarter combat.....
M.VIB.M.
Re: Rome vs Japan - Magnus - 08-10-2006
Quote:On a side note. I love medieval and feudal japaneses culture, but after watching japanese television...
What the heck happened to Japan!
Travis
You mean like MXC...Most Extreme Elimination Challenge?
That's quality...and it makes me LMAO!
HAHHAAHAHA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLvjd3K6 ... ed&search=
Re: Rome vs Japan - tlclark - 08-10-2006
Quote:tlclark:3p6viwb0 Wrote:On a side note. I love medieval and feudal japaneses culture, but after watching japanese television...
What the heck happened to Japan!
Travis
You mean like MXC...Most Extreme Elimination Challenge?
That's quality...and it makes me LMAO!
HAHHAAHAHA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLvjd3K6 ... ed&search=
What the heck?!
I don't understand why Japan couldn't just be Japan without all the imperialism/war stuff after WWII. Why did it become this pop culture bizarro world?
No offense intended. I just don't get it.
Travis
Re: Rome vs Japan - Magnus - 08-10-2006
Well...I think it's a normal phenomenon. Ever see something in life drift towards one side of the scale..then rapidly move back to the other end? Eventually it normals out back to the middle (well balanced), until something else comes along to upset it.
I think because of the mixture of conservatism, nationalism and somewhat cultural isolationism (due to their superiority complex), Japan has now gone the complete opposite. But yeah, it's wonky, to be sure. Which is too bad...hopefully things will calm down a bit. But they're really addicted to their pop culture and techno stuff...
Re: Rome vs Japan - john m roberts - 08-10-2006
Plus, there is always a tendency to imitate the dominant culture, and America is represented throughout the rest of the world by its pop culture (it can be argued that america doesn't have any other culture.) Everyone everywhere in the world watches Hollywood movies and hears American music. I thought one of the most symbolic pictures I ever saw was one of people dancing atop the Berlin Wall just before it came down. Every last person on the wall was wearing blue jeans.
japan are quite japanese - Goffredo - 08-10-2006
Hey guys
I think the japanese are very japanese about their techno pop stuff. Nothing U.S. or british about it except at a very superficial level. I was in japan for 10 days about four years ago and it never once crossed my mind they were copying us. They live in world all of their own.
Re: Rome vs Japan - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 08-10-2006
TRUE!!!!!!!!!!
finally something that makes sense!!!!!! It indeed has NOTHING to do with any other culture than the Japanese culture!
:lol:
M.VIB.M.