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+--- Thread: Rome vs Japan (/showthread.php?tid=6276)
Re: Rome vs Japan - Tiberius Geracius - 08-02-2006
Ave,
Ok I dont know as much about Japanies history/military history as everyone else does, but I do know this. The bulk of the Japanies army was made up of farmers or pesants who were conscripted into the military. They seldomly wore armor and the primary weapon that they would carry was a form of a long spear. I dont know how much training (very little I think) they got. Early in history on if I am not mistaken a Samurai would cut of the head of an enemy, and leave the battle field to give to his master for payment. That is bad tactics I am sorry. Next comes the stories I have read and been told where some samurai would in battle go over to the other side if things were looking bad which shows poor loyalty. If you have no reguard for your life then you will charge aimlessly where as the Romans acctually would think things through before attacking. When Hannibal attacked Italy in 216 he was hoping that the Armies and ALLIES would come over to him. Almost all didnt they stayed loyal. Loyalty is debatable among the Japanes armies, because some of them were totally mercanary groups. Ninja on the battle field for god sakes what are you thinking. Oh look a guy dress all in back ya you are not going to notice him on the field let me tell you. The katana cutting a pila what are you going to cut that in mid air. I have had a pila thrown at me by accident one time. Trust me it went right threw my shield without any propblem. When they come flying all you cant do is pray and hide. Anime and movies (the last Samuria with Tom Cruse) dont apply in real life.
In other words Samurai sword get stuck in shield, happy roman put gladius tip in Samurais gutt, Samurai fall, and dies. Roman moves on. LOL This is indeed a very interesting topic I must congradulate my friend. Also if some are still left daughting Roman power look at 60AD in England where 8000 Romans fought 100000 Celts and the Romans won killing 80000 celts and inslaving others. Boddicia was the celtic princess name.
LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE
Re: Rome vs Japan - ~Praetoria~ - 08-02-2006
Quote:that is why a clash between Romans and Samurai armies is so interesting..... it might as well end in a stalemate.exactly this is how we answer this whole topic, they were both amazingly proficient at warfare, and obviously they didn't fight due to the huge time difference.
Quote:aboutmass production......... look above....... and read.......I was posting my reply to Tarbicus' reply when you made this last one
Re: Rome vs Japan - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 08-02-2006
Tiberius Geracius:
I have studied Japanese history, culture and language at university level for over 15 years now, and while you are right about the farmers and peasants, you are unfortunately not right in many other statements.
Early in history on if I am not mistaken a Samurai would cut of the head of an enemy, and leave the battle field to give to his master for payment.
Wrong! Samurai of both sides would shout insults and boast about their lineage before the main battle, and would try to lure samurai of the other side into a person to person duel. afterwards the head of the samurai who lost, was washed carefully, and sent in a wooden gift box to the family of the slain one. Heads given in payment to ones master was not done!
Loyalty is debatable among the Japanes armies
Wrong! Loyalty amongst joined warring factions, families and treaty makers was often fallible. the armies themselves were only loyal to their lord, and no one else.
Ronin were indeed used, however never trusted by any side! they were always under close guard of several units which were supposed to kill any Ronin misbehaving or showing disloyalty.
Ninja on the battle field for god sakes what are you thinking
Wrong anain! Do not think or try to imagine the Ninja as they are portrayed present day... battlefield Ninjas were used, not only in brutal night attacks, but also during daylight attacks, in which they used concealment, stealth, and various other tactics now employed by the SAS
and other elite forces. wearing normal clothing by the way.
In other words Samurai sword get stuck in shield, happy roman put gladius tip in Samurais gutt, Samurai fall, and dies. Roman moves on.
I hereby invite you to a battle during a re enactment in the near future with me wearing my full samurai armor (not horse riding armour!) and and my very very sharp sword, and you, with shield and Roman gear...
may the best win!
I ll make sure that afterwards i will send your severed head to your next of kin with the highest honour possible!
M.VIB.M. :twisted:
Re: Rome vs Japan - ~Praetoria~ - 08-02-2006
augh, why can't we all just say they're equal and quit arguing. I can tell this topic is getting very heated.
Re: Rome vs Japan - Tarbicus - 08-02-2006
Quote:Wrong! Samurai of both sides would shout insults and boast about their lineage before the main battle, and would try to lure samurai of the other side into a person to person duel.Exactly as Republican Romans did before battle fully ensued. Think of Corvus. If he won he was entitled to the enemy's armour and it was hung as a status symbol on the outside wall of his house above the door. It was a very prestigious symbol and proof of virtus. Some individuals had many such trophies on display.
Quote:In other words Samurai sword get stuck in shield, happy roman put gladius tip in Samurais gutt, Samurai fall, and dies. Roman moves on.Wouldn't exactly be the right thing to do, would it now.
I hereby invite you to a battle during a re enactment in the near future with me wearing my full samurai armor (not horse riding armour!) and and my very very sharp sword, and you, with shield and Roman gear...
may the best win!
What's really needed is a century versus an equivalent group of samurai!
Quote:I ll make sure that afterwards i will send your severed head to your next of kin with the highest honour possible!Hmm, samurai armour above the door sounds like a cracking idea
Re: Rome vs Japan - Robert Vermaat - 08-02-2006
Quote:augh, why can't we all just say they're equal and quit arguing. I can tell this topic is getting very heated.
Hear hear, my friends! This topic is under surveillance... :twisted:
Re: Rome vs Japan - Tarbicus - 08-02-2006
Quote:This topic is under surveillance... :twisted:
Is that like as a Ninja?
![[Image: wings_ninja.gif]](http://www.localracechat.com/forums/images/smilies/wings_ninja.gif)
Re: Rome vs Japan - Robert Vermaat - 08-02-2006
Quote:Vortigern Studies:5tfsmyzf Wrote:This topic is under surveillance... :twisted:Is that like as a Ninja?
You don't actually see me watching you, do you? :roll:
Re: Rome vs Japan - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 08-02-2006
Hahahaha indeed i see his shade hanging from my roofbeams as i type this!!!!!
Brilliant!!!!!!!
:lol:
heated discussions are so much fun! and tarbiccie.... would love to have your armor too! hahahahaha :wink:
M.VIB.M.
Roman or Japanese, that is the question! hehehehehe
Re: Rome vs Japan - Tiberius Geracius - 08-02-2006
Calm down everyone I only started this topic to find out what people think. This is a what if topic and thats why I put it in the off topic subject. Like I said my knowledge in Japans history is limited. I am just going by what I have read thus far if it is wrong then correct me but do it in a civil way most of us are Romans after all we are a civilized people. lol
It would have been interesting if the Roman Empire survived and began expanding west (America) and East (China and Japan). Two great cultures colide who would win?
For the Empire
Re: Rome vs Japan - petrinus - 08-03-2006
"In other words Samurai sword get stuck in shield, happy roman put gladius tip in Samurais gutt, Samurai fall, and dies. Roman moves on.
I hereby invite you to a battle during a re enactment in the near future with me wearing my full samurai armor (not horse riding armour!) and and my very very sharp sword, and you, with shield and Roman gear...
may the best win! "
i invite the same only i require no such armor, give me my katana blunted iato will suffice for demonstration purposes and a willing oponent that knows how to fall well, and i dont mean at all the gratuitis type, and ill provide examples tactic and technique that i feel would have ensured samurai victory or i'll commit mock suicide
this hasd been a fun thread though
Re: Rome vs Japan - NightHunter24 - 08-03-2006
Avete Omnes!
To tell you the truth I'd rather have no answer to the original question. I'll tell you why: I admire both the Romans and the Samurai and what they represented within the context of their respective eras. Romans were hardy, practical, and tenatious. The Samurai were bound by honor, were very brave, and very skilled with the use of their weapons. Hmmm qualities I'd like to possess one day....
And for battle....hey just plug in a roman simulation battle game and put some samurai as opponents and see who wins!....fun!... :lol:
Re: Rome vs Japan - Tarbicus - 08-03-2006
This has been a fun thread, but I have found a tad alarming the number of assumptions made about Roman soldiers, and how they are perceived.
Sure, they mutinied. Okay, they could be treacherous. Yeah yeah, money mattered. But there are also numerous examples and evidence for their skills and bravery, and unquestioning loyalty. Day to day constant training for fifteen to twenty five years should count for something :wink: The assumption is that because someone has some kind of moral code they must therefore be better fighters; There is just no logic to that at all. Is it actually a moral code, or just a set of rules amongst peers, for peers? It doesn't make it moral.
When it comes to the desire to fight, I wonder how many samurai threatened to kill their leaders if they tried to stop them? There are also references to Dacia and the Romans being in trouble because of the falx, etc, but they won, didn't they?
Anyways, fun thread.
Re: Rome vs Japan - Martin Moser - 08-03-2006
Quote:The japanese were not that focused on killing each other, but simply were not interested in begoming a big empire after two consecutive attempts to conquer Korea, in which they won, but found it too much fuss to stay....
:lol: A certain fraction of Japanese would love you for this explanation.
Keeping in mind the scholbook revisions of the recent years, one could probably also find it (in a somewhat more sophisticated form) in Japanese history textbooks
hock: Thinking about it, wouldn't this also make a good explanation for why the Roman Empire ceased to exist? ;-) )
Re: Rome vs Japan - petrinus - 08-03-2006
over extension, civil wars, infighting political scheming, it undoes greatness in every century in every land, youd think we in this century would learn something mor eof it and apply it....or maybe its time for another empire, done rightly it might hold? i think atleast a military service for citizenship would unit the country and its people even civil service if m=not military but service in some capacity and earned citizenship, what is earned is appreciated and fought for with greater passion and appreciation