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+--- Thread: Rome vs Japan (/showthread.php?tid=6276)
Re: Rome vs Japan - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 11-03-2006
The YARI:
![[Image: 180px-Yari-p1000608.jpg]](http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/e/e2/180px-Yari-p1000608.jpg)
![[Image: Samurai02img.jpg]](http://www.wetaworkshop.co.nz/resources/images/gallery/fullsize/Samurai02img.jpg)
and what a Falcata/Falx can do:
![[Image: falxcut1.jpg]](http://whoa.femail.com/legioxx/falxcut1.jpg)
M.VIB.M.
Re: Rome vs Japan - Praefectusclassis - 11-03-2006
Oh look! It's Rich and Matt/Magnus being anachronistic!
Re: Rome vs Japan - Matt Lukes - 11-03-2006
And looking a whole lot less disturbed than I'd have been to see that kind of effect on a scutum :lol:
Re: Rome vs Japan - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 11-03-2006
well lets try it with a real katana then to see how disturbed you will be in that case!!!!
:lol:
http://neo.usethesource.org/~devourment77/mgun.wmv
and this cost them about 7 .50 cal machine gun bullets........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Zq4f82kjs
so yes, you can break it.... but it takes some effort.
M.VIB.M.
Re: Rome vs Japan - tlclark - 11-04-2006
Ok, two thoughts:
Let's see how well a falx works on a line of scuta that are manned with experienced legionnaires with pilae, ballistae, scorpions, archers, gladii, cavalry, etc. etc. etc.
On the AMAZING katana video...
If only, IF ONLY there were still craftsman from the north of spain making swords we would have videos like this for spanish steel!!
Sigh.
Re: Rome vs Japan - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 11-04-2006
Unfortunately not many collectors of true Spanish swords would like to sacrifice just one for a test like this.......
M.VIB.M.
Re: Rome vs Japan - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 11-13-2006
Still a lot to do........ and the armoured sleeves (kote)
![[Image: kote.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/IMPERIALCOMMAND/kote.jpg)
are coming in this week!!
hopefully next year it all will be repainted, relaced, helmet rebuilt, and restored for actual re-enactment display use!!
![[Image: gusoku.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/IMPERIALCOMMAND/gusoku.jpg)
![[Image: IMAGE_099.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/IMPERIALCOMMAND/IMAGE_099.jpg)
M.VIB.M.
Re: Rome vs Japan - Magnus - 11-13-2006
Quote:And looking a whole lot less disturbed than I'd have been to see that kind of effect on a scutum :lol:
Yeah, I was just hiding behind the camera to cover my frightened face.
That scutum was also made in the 3 layered manner.
Hey Marcus, I always thought a Falx was more similar to a Nagamaki than any of their polearms.
![[Image: bushi_nagi.jpg]](http://www.dynastyforge.com/products/photos/bushi_nagi.jpg)
Re: Rome vs Japan - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 11-13-2006
![[Image: Richard-Stein-Nagamaki.gif]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0a/Richard-Stein-Nagamaki.gif)
Same MO indeed!
The Nagamaki:
The nagamaki (Japanese: 長巻, literally "long wrapping") is a Japanese weapon popular between the 12th and 14th centuries. Nagamaki are also known as nagamaki-naoshi.
History
Unlike the naginata, which can trace back its lineage to B.C. China, the nagamaki was developed in the middle of the Muromachi period. Today it is a rare collector’s item, and few martial arts teach its technique.
Manufacture
There are no solid rules governing the aspects of the make of the nagamaki. Unlike wakizashi, tanto, and katana, which have had history of strict measurements regarding the nagasa, and even the tsuka in some cases; the nagamaki varied in nagasa, nakago length (tang), kissaki style, et cetera. Bare nagamaki blades are of katana-length blades with typical katana-size tang (7–10 inches).[citation needed] This kind presumably could have koshirae in a tachi or katana style, as well as a nagamaki style. However there are example of nagamaki with rather long nakago (tang), which could be fitted with a longer staff for a haft and effectively function as a naginata. All traditional Japanese swords are fitted preferably very snug and held in place with a mekugi (bamboo peg) which is fit through a mekugi-ana (hole in the tang and hilt). This is actually quite a strong mount when done correctly, and allowed for easy dismount of the bare blade. Katana most commonly had one single mekugi, and nagamaki commonly have been found with two or more megkugi. There are always variances in the mekugi. Having mekugi at all makes it legally a type of bladed samurai weapon in Japan. There are fishing tools used in Japan which would otherwise be like samurai weapons had it not been for the absence of a mekugi-type mount.
The length of blade varies on a nagamaki. However, the nagasa most commonly fits the profile of a tachi or katana blade, which would be a blade of more than 2 shaku (60.6 cm, roughly 2 feet) in length. The tsuka (hilt) seems to average at about 2.5 feet. Generally speaking, the tsuka of this weapon is a bit longer than the blade.[citation needed] Perhaps equal to the saya (scabbard) in length. While nagamaki means "long wrap" they have been found with no ito (cord) at all, which is very much like a long tachi handle. The tsukamaki (hilt wrap) is of even more importance when applied to the tsuka of a nagamaki. The cord helps to strengthen tsuka quite a bit. Nagamaki found without hilt wrap usually had at least metal collars around the hilt where the tang is.
M.VIB.M.
Re: Rome vs Japan - silverbeard - 12-12-2006
samurai's main weapon was the bow, and their main attacking unit was the cav. archers, which i must say would cripple the less mobile roman army with countless flank or rear attacks.
but...if the romans managed to get into close combat there phalanx type tactics would probably beat the samurai in the long run...lets also remember that not all samurai were amazing almost mythical warriors...japanese armys would consist greatly of pheasants (who carried spears with little or no armor at all).
mainly foot soldiers carried yari's (spear) and hardly used their swords...while cav. carried long non-dachi sword....
just a few points to consider :wink:
this is what a trained samurai could do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHcisvHf ... ed&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AZumU0- ... ed&search=
Re: Rome vs Japan - Narukami - 12-12-2006
Greetings Silverbeard, and welcome to our forum.
Interesting video -- thanks for the link.
The Master's sword work reminds me of Tamijima and his naginata during the Heian Period.
It is important to remember that the Samurai, like the Romans, evolved over time in terms of weapons, armor, tactics, organization etc.
A Roman legion from the Punic Wars would hardly recognize their later day brothers in a 1st century Imperial Legion.
Likewise samurai from the Gempei Wars would be amazed by those from the battle of Sekigahara
Of course, certain aspects would be familiar as there was a consistency of "spirit" shall we say that animated both the Romans and the Samurai.
Perhaps the team that produces the Total War series of games will do an expansion that will allow for a battle between a Roman Legion and a Samurai Army. Might not be academically valid, but it would probably be a lot of fun to play. :wink:
Once again welcome to the Forum and thanks for the video link.
Narukami
Re: Rome vs Japan - Martin Moser - 12-12-2006
Quote:...japanese armys would consist greatly of pheasants
Now that must have been an interesting sight ;-) )
Re: Rome vs Japan - caiusbeerquitius - 12-12-2006
If the Romans could bring up an army of ferrets in lorica segmentata,
![[Image: ferret.jpg]](http://www.cpluhna.nau.edu/images/ferret.jpg)
it would be quite clear, who would be the winner.
Re: Rome vs Japan - MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS - 12-12-2006
BTW, the documented fights between samurai and spanish/portugese fencers were usually mutual killings... so far, so good
true, but that is mainly because of the use of the dagger/dirk and the two swords one mind style the samurai copied from the Portugese/spanish. also the fact the portuguese/spanish used guns helped. there are not that many documented incidents.
Narukami very well said! Warrior vbs Soldier is a good interpretation, especially in early samurai warfare the armies were very apt in not only work as one giant mass, but as small individual groups on the battlefield.
also the Samurai's use of fire as a weapon has not yet come into this thread.
they were masters in torching almost anything.
there was some discussion about yumi and parthian/syrian bows, and where the parthian bows are very strong, a yumi will beat this due to its power, which outdoes any smaller bow. compare the English longbow against other contemporary bows.
I think a legion would have a very very difficult time in batteling samurai, who were also masters of deception.... tactics of retreat immediately followed by onslaught and encirclement would have left the Romans utterly panicked.
M.VIB.M.
Re: Rome vs Japan - Gaius Julius Caesar - 12-12-2006
Amazing video! So the secret is to edge your scutum in .50cal bullets! :wink: