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+--- Thread: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! (/showthread.php?tid=5753)
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The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - Mithras - 05-23-2006
I just had a practice session with a classic-era pilum. I am impressed. I'm used to throwing lighter spicula, which are socketed very light pila from the 4th and 5thC. I'm also used to throwing verutua - 3 foot javelins.
I had a wooden man shaped target to dispose of and the veruta dig in and somtimes stay stuck in. The spiculum goes right through, armour piercing. Nasty. Hate for that to be a shield, and it sink right through your forearm or chest.
The pilum smashed the wooden target in half and snapped the 1.5 cm pole behind the target holding it up, clean in half. I have not seen that before.
S**t.
hock: If I knew there were 100 men walking towards me across that field, and in 15 seconds they were going to throw those monsters at me I would be crapping myself - I'm sure my forefathers did just that back in the days ...
Awesome! (Better than a katana!!! sorry ... roleplaying game joke)
Re: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - Marcus Mummius - 05-23-2006
Quote:Awesome! (Better than a katana!!! sorry ... roleplaying game joke)
Yeah, the pilum is sooo overpowered! Really really cheesy! :lol:
But you are right though. I think a pilum salvo stopped just about everything...
Regards,
Re: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - Mithras - 05-23-2006
You a gamer Marcus? D&D in your blood?
Re: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - Marcus Mummius - 05-23-2006
I like to game yes, D&D, WFB etc. all very addictive hobbies, almost as addictive as reenactment
cry: . But who needs a car anyway :lol: .On Topic: from how far could you throw the pilum and still be fairly accurate? How thick is the wooden shaft?
Kind regards,
Re: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - Chuck Russell - 05-23-2006
we did pilum chucking at pax romana this past weekend. it takes a lot of body movement to get it right. mine kept flying flat or would spin. i jsut couldnt get it right
although throwing it like a poolstick worked great 
Re: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - John M McDermott - 05-24-2006
I threw a socketed pilum to see how far I could throw it. 20 yards was about the best I could manage. I expect a trained athlete with a good arm (mine has never been good) could do better.
One problem is the tendency for the back part to want to come forward in flight.
Re: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - Matthew Amt - 05-24-2006
Yes, I'm SURE the Romans could throw these things farther than we can! A couple years back we threw a few at the scutum that Steve Peffley had built to test his falx on. (He used 1/8" birch plywood, but cut it into strips and layered them, then thinned the edges and covered it with thin leather on the front and fabric on the back.) It was leaning against a 2x4 post and we were chucking from 10 or 15 yards. My socketed Mark Morrow pilum went right through below the boss and SPLIT the 2x4. "Imagine that's your *femur*..." Big Ouch. Took a minute to get the pilum out of the post without bending the heck out of it.
Matthew
Re: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - Magnus - 05-24-2006
Hehehe...I remember that. I also remember stabbing that shield with my deepeeka gladius and wondering if it was going to break.
Re: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - A_Volpe - 05-24-2006
Geeze, I think you're lucky to get a Pilum to go out 70 feet...I think Matt Amt's right, these guys trained with the pila daily, so they must have been able to get some fairly good range with them, but I think the shorter the distance, the more horrendous the results, just the shock value alone of the front line getting nailed by those....
I find trying to put a little spin on the end of the throw, with a little "flick" of the first and middle finger down-and-outwards as it leaves your hand, seems to give a pretty good, fairly straight trajectory....Trying to throw it like a Mortar or a ballistic missle only seems to make the pila land buttspike-first or just 'belly-flop' with the shaft...Not really impressive.
Quote:The pilum smashed the wooden target in half and snapped the 1.5 cm pole behind the target holding it up, clean in half.
Hehehe, I believe it!
I remember the first Roman Days Northeast a few years back in Connecticut where we had some shield blanks set up for targets. Although not really accurate, one of the Romans had the Deepeeka Pilum with the ball weight just behind the tang/triangular block, yeah the one that weighs like 15 pounds...Anyway, when he chucked that bad-boy, it nearly went sideways but miraculously hit the shield fairly straight-on, and split...Uh..more like smashed...the shield in two halves, and sent those halves flying about 2 feet...
We nearly laughed ourselves sick in disbelief.
Those of us who had better pila (I had my RLQM one), not only shot through to the junction block, but bent nicely and left some serious dents and cracks in the shields.
Facing a mass Pila toss must have been a religous experience for the enemy... *shudder* Glad I'm a Roman!
Re: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - Gallus Marinus Micarius - 05-25-2006
I have a large backyard and throw pilum at an old scutum almost on a daily basis for over a year now...I'm tossing my two RLQM pilum and have become pretty accurate with decent range. The key is to toss the pilum in segmentata and scutum (or just hold scutum if too lazy to strap on the seg), and pay attention that one's body isn't flailing about or taking too many steps which wouldn't have been possible in formation.
I've noticed that getting the correct trajectory is key - too much arc and you get too much "rainbow" effect and the pilum will want rotate butt over nose before hitting the target (or ground)...too little arc and you get flat toss which lands...well, flat (with a thud). When you hit the sweet spot you know it, and the pilum will stick into target or ground at about a 45 degree angle.
Throwing downhill is a HUGE advantage, do dont need as much arc in the toss and your distance is substantially increased. Thowing uphill is likwise a significant challenge needing a much more upward arc. I recommend throwing in both conditions and paying strict attention to taking only one step while keeping your scutum in battle ready formation facing the enemy.
happy tossing
Re: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - Mithras - 05-25-2006
I've got one of those, in fact I have both Deepeeka pila, I'm satisfied with the standard pilum, the weighted pilum is way to massive to throw - It just feels too heavy to be realistic!!
Quote:I remember the first Roman Days Northeast a few years back in Connecticut where we had some shield blanks set up for targets. Although not really accurate, one of the Romans had the Deepeeka Pilum with the ball weight just behind the tang/triangular block, yeah the one that weighs like 15 pounds...
Why stop? - marsvigilia - 05-25-2006
I have also been very impressed with pilum.
So why did they stop using them?
Re: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - Peroni - 05-25-2006
One of our lads has the Deepeeka socketed pilum, It's an evil piece of kit! :twisted: Even the butt spike/ferrule is dangerous!
Regards,
Re: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - lvcivs - 05-25-2006
Tossing pila at Pax Romana was fun, though without a centurio standing behind me and threatening me with a big, curvy stick, it got boring after a little bit. ;-) )
I'm sure it's been mentioned elsewhere, but since this mentions training... would the legionaries practice with a normal pilum, or use a training weapon, such as when doing sword techniques?
Quote:One of our lads has the Deepeeka socketed pilum, It's an evil piece of kit! :twisted: Even the butt spike/ferrule is dangerous!
Regards,
I know that feeling, Peroni. At Pax Romana this past weekend, I accidentally set a pilum ferrule down on my foot and caligae while I was standing near the fire; I didn't notice it until after I had started to change back to modern day clothing, but that little bit of pressure had pinched my toe badly enough to leave a blood blister, and a neat little hole in the insole layer of my caligae.
Re: The pilum. Let me re-phrase that. The PILUM!! - Gallus Marinus Micarius - 05-25-2006
I think one of the reasons why the pilum dropped from favor is its range...with battles in the 3rd and 4th CE relying on more and more missile fire (various types of dart and light spears) the effective range of the pilum must have been "out gunned" by the lighter but presumably still deadly/disabling plumbatae.
Imagine showers of darts and javelins falling all around you from an enemy positioned beyond the range of your pilum....I would want to drop the damn pilum and start chucking some darts! I imagine this type of arms race dictated its demise.