What were the Eunuchs exactly!?

What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Printable Version

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What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Virilis - 03-24-2006

Salve!

Can someone tell me about the eunuchs? I know byzantine empire had them in various positions in their administration and even as a highest command in the army, like Narses, for example. Narses certainly had "balls", you can ask the goths :wink: ...

One reason, it is claimed, was that they didn`t have any dynastic aspirations and they were "safe" colleaques for the rulers. Also the habit of having eunuchs was inherited from the east in the later roman times.

Here are my actual questions:

-I assume there were several categories of eunuchs. They were not all Falsettos like Farinelli. WHAT KIND OF EVIDENCE WE HAVE OF THE ACTUAL TECHNIQUES OF MAKING EUNUCHS? All the organs removed, testicles, what?

-BTW, who is willing to make an accurate impression of an eunuch :wink: !?

Re: What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Carlton Bach - 03-24-2006

There were several techniques for creating eunuchs, and some could safely be used late in life (as safely as any major surgery in ancient times). There are reports that some eunuchs were not 'cut' at all, but had their testicles crushed as young boys. The procedure was supposedly safer than surgery. Cringeworthy it certainly is. Medical sources speak of two ways of castratio. One was removal of the testes only. It was possible until adulthood, and practised by some religions as ordination (and you thought celibacy was a sacrifice Smile

). The other was removal of testes and penis. This procedure was quite risky, and only possible with children. Techniscally, castration was illegal inside the Roman Empire, whch is why eunuchs were often purchased from the orient. However, I am sure that law was dead lettwer in many places. The Romans had their own version of 'East of Suez'.

As to what exactly this entails - even modern medical science does not exactly understand what happens with eunuch's bodies. Basically, if castration takes place in childhood, male hormones will not be produced and consequently the voice stays high and body and facial hair growth is very limited. Body growth does not seem to be affected - there are cases of eunuchs growing very tall, and very large (not just fat but large, like Maori warriors). Of course no sperm is created, so the person is rendered infertile. Sexual potency is also lost for most, though there are documented cases of (testes-only) eunuchs retaining erectile potency and even ejaculations. The effect on sexual desire is most disputed, and probably varied on a case-by-case basis. Eunuchs castrated in adulthood would still have facial hair and masculine voices, and beards continued to grow even without testosterone being produced. As top effects on personality, it was widely assumed across most cultures that eunuchs were effeminate, cowardly, and overcivilised, but it is well to recall that not only Narses, but also Admiral Cheng He, were eunuchs. I'll have to do some re-reading, it has been a number of years and I don't remember details that well.

As to a eunuch impression, it would certainly be interesting, but my copious facial and body hair would probably obstruct the suspension of disbelief. And I ain't shavin'

Re: What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Jona Lendering - 03-24-2006

Please not that the Greeks used the expression "eunuch" often to describe the Persian court official that was called a Å¡a reÅ¡i. (The Å¡ is a sharp sh.) This simply means "the man near the king's head", and was a common title. It has often been said that if every Å¡a reÅ¡i was indeed a eunuch, half the Asian courts had to be castrated. The matter has been discussed by several authors, but the best overview can be found in Pierre Briant's Histoire de l' empire Perse (1995; there is an English translation).

In my opinion, the importance of eunuchs at the Achaemenid court is greatly exaggerated, like the harem intrigues, stories about the great king's 365 concubines, and the prostitution ceremony that would have marked a Babylonian girl's coming of age. These stories tell a lot about Greek sexual attitudes, but not about history.

The role of eunuchs in Byzantium is, of course, a different matter.

Re: What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - hoplite14gr - 03-24-2006

"Galeoi" the prists of Kybelle were "cutting off" with sharp stone.
Most cultures required the King to be physicaly complete if not perfect in appearence. So you could trust someonae with an army without fear of coup-de-etate. Thats why we read about eunouchs with immence power.
Prokopios tells of Persian general Varesamanes who though of royal blood could not inherit because he had lost his eye in war.
Kind regards

Re: What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Arthes - 03-25-2006

Greetings,
I had always wondered exactly what was done to one to become a eunach......
If it was the cutting off of one's balls, then all male followers of Artemis/Diana of Ephesus must have been eunachs too....
[url:34yiry03]http://www.biblepicturegallery.com/Pictures/PaganG/Diana%20of%20Ephesus%20The%20many%20appendiges%20were%20thougt%20la.htm[/url]
Eunach impression........without having to be 'authentic' you mean... :roll:
Ok, who is playing Bagoas at the Ancient Greek Festival....???:twisted:
regards
Arthes

Re: What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Carlton Bach - 03-25-2006

Quote:Greetings,
I had always wondered exactly what was done to one to become a eunach......
If it was the cutting off of one's balls, then all male followers of Artemis/Diana of Ephesus must have been eunachs too....
[url:24o2pslh]http://www.biblepicturegallery.com/Pictures/PaganG/Diana%20of%20Ephesus%20The%20many%20appendiges%20were%20thougt%20la.htm[/url]

Those that did, were. But the practice must have been limited to a sekect few, the very devout. For one thing, a religion requiring castration of *all* male followers has limited chances of biological perpetuation, and would also lack attractiveness to most potential converts.

Aside from which - do you realise how *big* that statue is in reality? There is an interpretation that these may be the testicles of sacrificial bulls, but that is disputed. Given the name of the website I suspect misunderstanding, ulterior motive, or an overly literal understanding of Ezekiel 23.20

What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - inkstain - 09-29-2013

You might want to read "The Heterosexualized Eunuch in the Roman Empire" which is a good overview.

http://www.academia.edu/1483952/The_Heterosexualized_Eunuch_in_the_Roman_Empire

Thanks again for a great site.
Milo

What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Reno Melitensis - 09-29-2013

Quite an interesting topic about eunuchs. I knew something about them and their latter use in the Ottoman period and their castration, but it was lovely to read all your posts.

But I must say that I was surprised to see a post by Jona Lendering. I enjoyed reading your book "Edge of the Empire. The Romans and the Low Countries". It was a very educative reading.

Cheers

What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Epictetus - 09-29-2013

There seems to have been an idea that eunuchs were prevalent in the Byzantine Empire and not in during the height of the Empire. Some Victorian writers (and others) have implied this was a sign of their moral and social degradation. But I wonder about this. Lucian says that the emperor Lucius Verus' mistress Panthea had them in the middle of the 2nd century:

Quote:...She received much attention, kept splendid state in every way, had a number of eunuchs and a great many maids, and, in general, the thing seemed to be on a greater scale than accords with private station.

Lucian, Essays in Portraiture

What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Robert - 09-29-2013

From a biologist/medicus viewpoint, indeed the mere act of castration does not render the subject impotent, just infertile. 98 % of the ejactulate is produced by the prostate, only 2 % is the actual sperm. The by-kidneys also play a role in the endocrinic production of testosteron, like in females, you have lower levels for sure, but testosteron production all the same. The removal of the balls themselves is not really mayor surgery and certainly in Roman times could have been performed without any danger of bleeding out. All it really requires is a single slit in the sack, the freeing of the testi from the membrane (they move quite freely within the sack) and the cutting of the seedleaders and connective tissue. A quick scorch with a cautary would have prevented any massive bleeding, closing both the seedleaders and the artery supplying blood to the balls. The sack could then be stitched closed, after the wound has been wel washed with a disinfectent, like acceticum. I would think the opperation best be conducted in a warm environment (after a warm bath), as the balls are kept at less then 37 degrees, so warmth would cause them to descend in the sack, leaving more room for the procedure then if the balls were pulled up close to the body.

What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Nathan Ross - 09-29-2013

Quote:The removal of the balls themselves is not really mayor surgery and certainly in Roman times could have been performed without any danger of bleeding out.

The 7th century doctor Paul of Aegina provides one of the few accounts of surgical castration from the period. His work is quoted in the paper Milo linked above, but there's a fuller relation of it here:

Women, Men and Eunuchs

The next page mentions a law of Justinian claiming that only three out of a sample ninety people castrated survive the operation! So not as neat as all that then... :eek:

What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Robert - 09-30-2013

Ouch, that sounds like bad odds. Hmm, wonder is the same was true with oxen and horses. Doubt it very much. The procedure itself is not all that complicated, as the doctor Paul demonstrates. He uses two cuts, though.
So I think the high toll described by Justianus is either a means of getting the law passed more easily or they had some butcher performing the castrations, the subject dying of shock.

What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Michael Kerr - 09-30-2013

Robert wrote:

Quote:Ouch, that sounds like bad odds. Hmm, wonder is the same was true with oxen and horses. Doubt it very much.

In regards to horses, I don't know how other cultures gelded their animals but Scythians used to perform the "orchidectomy" on their colts by crushing the seminal cord with a wooden mallet. This custom of nomadic breeders goes back to the reindeer herdsmen who up to recent times performed the operation in the most primitive way, by severing the seminal cord with their teeth.
Regards
Michael Kerr

What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Renatus - 09-30-2013

Quote:The next page mentions a law of Justinian claiming that only three out of a sample ninety people castrated survive the operation! So not as neat as all that then... :eek:

This is the law in question:
http://webu2.upmf-grenoble.fr/DroitRomain/Anglica/N142_Scott.htm

What were the Eunuchs exactly!? - Michael Kerr - 09-30-2013

Below is a link to an article about the rise of eunuchs in Roman Empire. Might be of some interest.

http://rbedrosian.com/Sex/Stevenson_1995_Eunuchs.pdf

Regards
Michael Kerr